278 Comments
User's avatar
Jane in NC's avatar

The whole point of getting that 'transgender and anti-fascist ideology' trope out there was because the hard evidence and facts will never catch up with the lie, nor be as wide disseminated. The trans trope will be adopted as gospel by the MAGA faithful, no matter what the actual facts eventually show.

carol rydel's avatar

Exactly. Now that the shooter has been identified as a white supremacist Christian radical right-winger, he will be described as "mentally ill," and all coverage of him will immediately stop because he doesn't fit the narrative they wanted.

Steve Kierkegaard's avatar

No fair trial yet, only a suspect in custody. Let us not jump to conclusions.

Pam McCullough's avatar

I'm not jumping to conclusions that he's guilty, I'm going to wait to see if they at least keep him in custody since they released the others quite fast. Point being is I would like to respond to the "Liberals are murderers" and other rhetoric on my friend's page before I unfriend them. Anyone who so quickly blames a whole sect of people for the action of one person needs to be smacked down. I'm just tired of the BS.

Steve Kierkegaard's avatar

This is called the "fallacy of composition," or more colorfully the inverse of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. You cannot use the sins (or virtues) of an individual to characterize a group to which the individual belongs or claims to belong. It is unfair to people who have only a tenuous connection to a killer to be blamed for their actions. And as for who has more blood on their hands it's members of the radical right wing who have done most of the politically motivated killings of Americans in the last 10 years, per the ADL. Is this surprising given the violent rhetoric of the Tea Party, the Freedom Caucus, QAnon, and the "MAGA" movement? Calling right wing provocateurs like Kirk a fascist is a bit inflammatory, but it does not compare to the Presidents constant defamatory lies about Democrats, trans people, and others. Trump was literally quoting Hitler and Mussolini about us in the campaign in 2024, saying we were "poisoning the blood of our nation," and such. There flies the real flag of hypocrisy.

Pam McCullough's avatar

I'm a 100% believer that their are bad people on both sides of the aisle, they exist in every race, religion and sexual orientation. I have called out several people for trying to impose "violent and murderous" traits to the entirety of the Democratic party. And I totally understand there is more violence at the hands of straight, white, male right wingers than other groups. It just sickens me that the death of one man, one racist, homophobic, hate monger has caused so many on the right to call for war against an entire group of people. But this is where we are as a country thanks to a president who believes he's only president to those who support him and is so willing to call for the violence himself.

Ann Rock's avatar

Well, let’s just look at the reactions of our country’s leaders after this horrifying event, only one called for more violence. I assume I don’t need to name him…

Cheryl Johnson's avatar

If it is confirmed that a family member (who is himself a LEO) convinced the suspect to turn himself in, then I think it is reasonable to think that law enforcement is finally on the right track.

Especially given the fact that the Gov. of Utah has publicly reminded the media that Utah is a death penalty state.

Frau Katze's avatar

I think that much is confirmed.

Barbara Rengstorff's avatar

Something that struck me oddly though was that both the two original pictures they had of a “suspect” and the one they had of the guy that was turned in look very much alike. In fact the two original pictures were so clear that even before he was turned in, I was thinking that someone would be recognizing him. I think he’s going to have a hard time getting out of this one unless he claims insanity. Just my opinion.

Bambi Vargo's avatar

Two days ago Magats were salivating over charging a mentally ill black man who murdered a young woman on public transportation.

Laurel Yatsko's avatar

You and Jane are absolutely correct. If the Maguts can't have their 'we're' the victim fantasy, no matter what, they drop it. A thoroughly brain washed bunch they be.

Frau Katze's avatar

The base is pretty fired up. Very emotional. We’ll see.

Pam McCullough's avatar

Has it been confirmed he is a right winger? I haven't had the energy to keep up with all the noise so all I knew was they had found him. If confirmed I have a few people on social media that I need to shove this info in their faces :)

Kay Hale's avatar

his parents are reg. Rs. the area he lives in is hugely maga and decades red. He apparently did not vote in last 2 elections and was unaffiliated. raised mormon in red southern Utah is a huge red flag

Kay Hale's avatar

One of many who subscribe to the gun culture, he fits the narrative but not the narrative of leftist dem. Southern Utah is a safe place for sovereign guys, Ammon Bundy is hiding out there, Phil Lyman has a huge following thinking our National Parks and roadless public lands should be open to him and his buddies ATVs with abandon, Polygamous pedophile hideouts, etc.

Jeremy's avatar

All we know is that he is the son of a Cop and was raised in a pro-gun household.

I don’t think anyone knows his personal beliefs yet.

Purobi Phillips's avatar

I just saw in Bluesky the recipt that he donated to Trump as an "Entrepreneur". The post was a comment to a Medias post.

Your Illegal Martian's avatar

He's a follower of Nick Fuentes.

Frau Katze's avatar

Not confirmed yet. His parents are Republican, it’s a conservative area.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/us/politics/tyler-robinson-charlie-kirk.html

Your Illegal Martian's avatar

I heard on the news tonight that they confirmed his family is conservative, he plays video games associated with radicalized conservatives, and some other things I don't remember now. Oh, in a text or online chat he asked a friend to pick up the rifle at "the drop off."

Leslie J's avatar

Sounds like just really online?

Cheryl Johnson's avatar

It is also starting to sound like he was heavily into video games. Considering his age, gender, and the the fact that the Covid pandemic hit 5.5 years ago this wouldn't be a huge surprise.

And of course there appear to be links between gaming and far-right radicalization:

https://globalextremism.org/post/how-the-far-right-spreads-hate-through-gaming/

Pam McCullough's avatar

So maybe assumptions still seeing that he is Mormon, or at least what I read.

Rich's avatar

Mormons are never liberal NEVER

AR's avatar
Sep 12Edited

Not true. I was a liberal Mormon for 30 years, raised my kids to be both, and most of my Mormon friends were also liberals. I doubt this kid is liberal, but thereʻs a 25% chance he was raised that way if he grew up in a Mormon family, even in UT. So even if this guy is the murderer (I doubt it for Jayʻs reasons and some of my own), we liberals are not out in the clear yet.)

LuAnne Leonard's avatar

Yes, they are my old boss was Mormon and a card carrying liberal.

Pam McCullough's avatar

Oh, I actually didn't know that. Thanks!!

Leslie J's avatar

I was wondering why Nancy Mace was hoping he found Jesus. As the Mormons will tell you, it is the "church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints". 🤷‍♀️

Ann Rock's avatar

This was when she thought he was a liberal transgendered person. Of course, she may not think Mormons are Christian. I know the evangelicals don’t think Catholics are 🤨

Frau Katze's avatar

He hasn’t been positively identified as white supremacist, Christian radical right winger yet. This is still speculation.

Your Illegal Martian's avatar

True. They've found online indications that he's a follower of Nick Fuentes which means he has radical right-wing ideology tendencies.

Frau Katze's avatar

We’ll know soon. Of course, once he’s charged, not much will come out till the trial.

Every. Effing. Day.'s avatar

It never does, and the right has become very adept at this. Tell a vivid lie as soon as possible, to the extent that lie confirms the audience's biases, it sticks, and then not only will the truth be rejected, repeating it will only reinforce the lie. This psycho-hack ensures that truth will always lose.

Stuyvesant Bearns's avatar

YOU HIT THE NAIL SQUARELY ON THE HEAD.

Our current national motto seems to be a very old one" DON'T BOTHER ME WITH THE FACTS; MY MIND IS MADE UP.

Steve Kierkegaard's avatar

Exactly. This propaganda will be used to justify further persecution of trans and other LGBTQ+ people and their liberal allies. And if it all turns out to be untrue, which is not unlikely, its falsity will not matter for a very long time.

Your Illegal Martian's avatar

I'm sure you've been asked these questions before: Have you read any of the works of Søren Kierkegaard? Do you consider yourself to be an existentialist? Would you happen to be related to Søren Kierkegaard?

Steve Kierkegaard's avatar

I did read some of his work in college in a class on Mysticism and Existentialism, but that was a while ago. I am not related to Søren Kierkegaard, nor do I adhere to any particular philosophy. My Substack user name is a pseudonym.

Your Illegal Martian's avatar

I was just curious. Thank you for letting me know your user name is a pseudonym. Back more than 30 years ago I had some college philosophy classes and a couple of them included his works specifically: one was Kierkegaard and Nietzsche and the other was Existentialism. Both philosophers were quite interesting.

Bambi Vargo's avatar

Yes, the whole idea is to control the narrative with false information.

Waffles's avatar

Yep.. as always the republicans have zero interest in fact but full interest in getting their messaging out first….

It’s hard to compete with that, because facts take time to verify!

Joel L's avatar

This. It's a disinfo tactic. Get the lie out early and loud, and it will dominate the narrative even after it is proven false.

Karen Kaehler's avatar

Just like the nonexistent Walz-Boelter connection that lives on.

Jane in NC's avatar

Reminiscent of the "Obama pals around with terrorists" trope that Tundra Barbie threw out because Obama and Bill Ayers were once in the same room together.

Paula B.'s avatar

Thank you for this, Jay. It validates everything I've been thinking.

Peter Dudley's avatar

As the father of a trans person, I abhor the dehumanization and morally bankrupt targeting of the trans population.

This is what you get when you put reality TV and cable news characters in charge.

😢

Pamela S.'s avatar

As the mother of a trans person, I so agree. 😢

Amy Bogetto-Weinraub's avatar

Mother of a trans person as well. This world is vile and terrifying right now.

E. L. Fludd's avatar

As a trans person, I also agree. It's peculiar and not a little unpleasant that they've chosen to scapegoat us. (In my lifetime we've gone from lots of people not really knowing about us, to a few years where American society seemed close to liking and accepting us, to now.)

There would almost be something funny in the way that a mysterious series of arrows prompted government agents to make the intuitive leap, "Ah, yes, this one had sympathy for the trans," if it weren't actually terrifying how the world has been primed to make us the villains.

I finally understand the frustration of yogurt tubs when people try to recycle them. (Your mind switched off when you saw those chasing arrows, didn't it? I'm a RIC 5. Your curbside won't take tubs like us.)

Similarly, though the instructions on extracting one's head from one's butt seem straightforward on the page, with a single arrow indicating you should pull perpendicular to uranus, it just goes to show you shouldn't take it for granted that people are able to interpret such things correctly.

Chris Ortolano's avatar

This is NOT confirmed, but word on the internet is both his parents are registered republicans AND he was a follower of Nick Fuentes.

Kathleen Fernandez's avatar

If true that he was a follower of Fuentes, the kiling makes a bit more sense, as he and Kirk vilified one another recently.

Chris Ortolano's avatar

It seems like it's been confirmed; he was a follower of Nick Fuentes.

Crisis in Confidence's avatar

You won't find one because this is nonsense. This is ideological contortion and misinformation generated by people who don't want to admit that obvious reality of the situation.

Lorraine Parish's avatar

just read on AOL news, he hated Kirk for spreading hate. Hey, so did I but I'd never think of doing what he did. Mentally ill young man with a fucking gun and a convenient opportunity.

Chris Ortolano's avatar

I just heard he was, in fact, a follower of Nick Fuentes. Even his family and friends confirmed this.

Frau Katze's avatar

I’m not seeing that at NYT. Vanity Fair mentions it, but just based on the bullet markings.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/charlie-kirk-tyler-robinson-memes-meaning

Martha Pierce's avatar

Thank you..I’m waiting for others to comfirm this…..wondering if the FBI hasnt reported it because they are investigating Nick Fuentes

Jeffrey Carpenter's avatar

A "good guy with a gun"---until he wasn't

Lorraine Parish's avatar

heard he was an extreme Maga and didn't think Kirk was maga enough or devoted to trump enough

Annie D Stratton's avatar

You "heard"? From where? Name source and THEIR sources, or don 't bother. This is simply conjecture.

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Sep 13
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Crisis in Confidence's avatar

There's zero information from any of those outlets that would indicate the shooter was even close to right wing. Motivated reasoning is not a source.

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Sep 13
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Crisis in Confidence's avatar

I am mistaken? Can you provide a single one of those sources with any sort of quotations? Or are you just going to shift the goal posts further?

Your Illegal Martian's avatar

Both were brought up in the news tonight and both are true.

Annie D Stratton's avatar

If it's not confirmed, why are you posting it? And what do either of those things have to do with a legitimate investigation and due process?

Frau Katze's avatar

It’s confirmed about his parents, but I’ve not seen anything about Nick Fuentes.

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Sep 12Edited
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Chris Ortolano's avatar

Yup, I still get told that the "left" tried to kill trump - Twice!!

Katherine Taylor's avatar

So where is the Butler shooter now? Did the R’s “hire” him to purposely target someone nearby so the felon could be a victim of the Left? Does he live on an island somewhere sipping Margaritas?

Frau Katze's avatar

The Butler shooter, Matthew Crooks, was killed at the scene.

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Sep 13Edited
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Katherine Taylor's avatar

Forgot he was killed Frau Katze. Yes. The ultimate patsy.

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Sep 12
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Chris Ortolano's avatar

Yeah, he was not hit by a bullet. I trained as a stretcher bearer in the Navy, and part of our training was watching how bullets cause wounds and how to provide first aid. A bullet from an AR-15 would have blown at least the top of his ear off, even if it only grazed it.

Kasumii's avatar

Right? I’ve seen graze wounds as well (also a veteran) and all he had was a nick from the broken teleprompter.

Chris Ortolano's avatar

IF that; I think the shooter was much more skilled, and was never even aiming at trump.

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Sep 12
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Chris Ortolano's avatar

You think they killed that firefighter on purpose.

Amy O's avatar

As you said, questioning the political orientation of the shooter is definitely called for, especially because Trump was declaring the shooter was a leftist before he even knew who the shooter was. Trump himself brought the shooters political orientation into the conversation!

Marilyn Kellner's avatar

So in the photos of the alleged shooter of Charlie Kirk and the video of him leaving the roof, there is no rifle visible. The rifle was found in the woods. So what’s the story with that? How did the rifle land up in the woods?

Toni Elka's avatar

Yes! This. WTAF? Zone is, again, flooded with mis and dis information while the radical left and right square off for further violence that can only benefit bad actors. We need to counter with calm factual responses, careful analysis, strategy and tactics to push this in a peaceful direction

T L Mills's avatar

If you watch the clip of the suspect jumping off the roof closely...he seems to have a long black duffel that was right beside him when he landed. I expect that the gun may have been in there.

Marilyn Kellner's avatar

I had thought that was a backpack and that’s why I was wondering if a shotgun could be disassembled to be put in to a backpack quickly, and then unloaded out of the backpack and assembled, as reported finding the gun wrapped in a towel. They didn’t say it was not assembled

Besides the fact, fool me once, fool me twice, Patel and Company are not believable to me because they lie so much… I don’t believe anything they say.

Ben Prickril's avatar

Exactly. If the jump off roof vid is him, is he running in the direction of the woods where the gun was found? WAY too much noise in the information that’s out so far to know what is true. For this reason as well, I’m not too concerned with the flagrantly biased info reported early on.

LStrong's avatar

The authorities have reported today that a screwdriver was found on “a rooftop” and that the suspect’s dna was found on the screwdriver. If accurate this could support the theory that the suspect disassembled the rifle before exiting the rooftop.

LStrong's avatar

There’s a long Reddit thread on the subject of how the weapon was transported to and from the shooting location. Included in the thread is a link to the FBI affidavit in the case. Their theory is that the shooter transported the rifle to the roof by concealing it under his clothes on his right side, which caused his strange walking gait (“the limp”). They don’t express a specific theory regarding how he carried it away.

Some of the Reddit posters think that the rifle could have been disassembled after the shooting, possibly making it possible to conceal the pieces in the backpack or bag. If that was the case then the suspect put it back together before leaving it wrapped in a towel in the wooded area.

I noticed one odd thing. In the video of the suspect running on the roof from the location of the shooting at one point he runs behind a structure on the roof and is out of sight. He stayed out of sight for longer than it would have taken if he’d just continued running. He may have disassembled the rifle and shoved it into the backpack/bag during that brief period.

This is a tragic and odd situation.

LStrong's avatar

The man in the video was carrying a large backpack.

Steve Kierkegaard's avatar

But it seems unlikely a a Mauser 98 hunting rifle would be concealed by the backpack seen in the video released by the FBI. They are too long (1.13 to 1.185 meters long, nearly 4 feet).

LStrong's avatar

Looking at the videos of the suspect from before and after the shooting there doesn’t seem to be any other explanation for how that rifle got to the shooting location, then ended up at the wooded area, unless it was a different weapon that was used.

Steve Kierkegaard's avatar

It could be that the rifle was in the bag, which might be a longer duffel bag. The resolution of the CCTV video I saw was not really good enough to tell. And if a long bag was recorded at an angle to the camera, rather than having its long side nearly perpendicular to the camera lens axis, it could have appeared to be shorter than it actually was. So my earlier comment could well be wrong.

Tara's avatar

Am I the only person who thinks it's weird that the danger yam announced the shooter's arrest before, ya know, the people who did the actual arresting? Sumn ain't right with these heauxs.

Kathi Jackson's avatar

I believe that it was Kash Patel who announced that the shooter was in custody instead of waiting until it was confirmed by law enforcement. Because he is an idiot who doesn't understand how things are supposed to work, and should not be in his position.

Tara's avatar

Jay wrote "Per the New York Times, Donald Trump told Fox & Friends last night that they had a suspect in custody, and that it was the “person we’re looking for,” but the FBI has not confirmed his account yet." Which sounded to me like danger yam was flappin his gums on the propaganda network before the FBI announced that they'd made an arrest. But maybe I'm wrong.

Lance Khrome's avatar

The current suspect, Tyler Robinson, was actually turned in by family and friends to Utah LEO, sparing Ka$h and his broken FBI any further grief. Similar to Ted Kaczynski getting burned by his brother...makes things easy for the feds and tRump, if Robinson has indeed confessed to the shooting.

DW's avatar

But no doubt they will take credit for their fine work in apprehending the suspect!

DW's avatar

He is such a low level moron. He probably was upset that he got called away from his poolside divan

Linda MacDonald's avatar

The goal of the lie is to keep people on edge and stoked. Unfortunately the propagandistic lie travels faster than the speed of light. The only thing that might slow it down is INTEGRITY in legacy and other media outlets. Unfortunately such a needed counter balance has been captured by excited clicks which send the $ signs rushing. Yes. Slow down. THINK. Do not just join all the lemmings rushing blindly past. Finally resist viewing the murdered man as a martyr or the murderer as a hero. Neither assessments are true.

Sharon C Storm's avatar

Charlie Kirk was full of hate, and he spread that as his message. Saying that gun deaths are permissible if we want to keep the 2nd Amendment is batshit crazy imho.

Linda MacDonald's avatar

Absolutely correct. Years ago before Scalia died in a bed somewhere in Texas, the scotus decided the 2nd A was about INDIVIDUAL GUN RIGHTS unconnected to the notion of a "militia" under the direction of a legal government whether state or federal. At least this is how I understand that decision. Wrong-headed IMO but just what the gun lobby wanted.

Holly Kerfoot's avatar

I don't think he said it was permissible. He said it was the price we have to pay for the "God-given" 2nd Amendment. And he was right, since a complete ban of firearms is impossible. Where there are guns, there will be death. What we have to figure out is how to limit that as much as possible, especially when children are the targets.

Sharon C Storm's avatar

Sensible gun control is necessary to limit the number of weapons of war. Ar-15s and AK-47s should not be in the hands of civilians. They are designed to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible.

Barbara Bubar's avatar

Trump SO quickly turned from how he was feeling about the murder to....LOOK at how they are digging for my beautiful ballroom!! Anything to distract, distract...isn't it wonderful how all of this means "they" are NOT talking about the Epstein files?? Is everyone in the White House crossing their fingers that they have finally put that subject to bed????

DW's avatar

Epstein, Epstein, Epstein!

T L Mills's avatar

Hah. Epstein's gonna haunt Trump until the day he dies--and maybe afterwards as well, depending on which level of the Inferno Twumpie ends up at.

Ada Fuller's avatar

You are so right to remind us to look at the actual facts and evidence rather than some one’s interpretation. Not being a gun owner, I couldn’t tell you anything about one, or their ammunition. Rather than watch the interpretation of the events by tv personalities, I watched a 9/11 program. My takeaway from that was that we were supposedly watchful and prepared but still had two buildings and thousands of people lost. Today, this administration has fired so many people that Putin could probably drive a nuclear bomb into Midtown and detonate it without anyone in government noticing.

Piet vdM's avatar

The Nick Fuentes connection comes as no surprise.

Dr. Connie Kellogg's avatar

So there is a suspect in custody. He comes from a highly religious republican family and he is cisgender . So he’s not trans. He’s not ,it appears to be, liberal and Trump goes on “Fox and Friends” and says that it’s important that we have fast trials like they “do in China“ and yet how long did his trial last? You know, that ended in a jury finding him guilty of 34 felony counts ? That lasted a long time because he kept appealing it, but remember that Trump has different rules or absolutely no rules at all. I am just hoping I live long enough to see him disappear from the political realm.

Patricia's avatar

Every morning the first thing I look for is his obituary.

Alice K.'s avatar

I think we should give Trump one of those Chinese trials.

T L Mills's avatar

I'm hoping to live long enough to see him disappear from the physical realm as well.

Karen's avatar

Good old Nancy Mace, she’s a piece of……work.

DW's avatar

I really think she believes what she says. I watched the interview where the reporter questioned her about the Minnesota senator and she said "you've got to be kidding me." She seemed very sincere in not understanding the connection, or the implication. Our government is infested with blind fools

Martha Donnelly's avatar

Didn't think I could loathe anyone in congress more than I loathe MTG, Boebert and Clay Higgins (who said yesterday that any liberal who criticized Kirk should be banned from all tech platforms and lose their jobs or businesses), but she has taken the top spot on my list of loathing.

DW's avatar
Sep 12Edited

So many to choose from; it's hard to know who's the worst

Cheryl Johnson's avatar

She is apparently looking at a run for Gov. in SC. I am hoping the residents of SC are smarter than that, but who knows these days!

T L Mills's avatar

She is the neediest attention whore I have yet seen in 'gummint'. Anything to get a camera and/or a mic shoved in her face and get a little mention on the nightly news...helps the campaign for 'guvner', dontcha know?

Holly Kerfoot's avatar

I think she fell in love with the attention when she was a cadet at The Citadel and has tried ever since to keep the focus on herself.

Katharine Hill's avatar

So much misleading information put out too quickly. Thank you, Jay, for trying to set things straight.

Shay Gray's avatar

And imagine our big surprise when the WSJ irresponsibly ran with their trans bashing story only to find that the call was coming from inside the house…22 year old white male hailing from a solid local republican family.

VT_Maid's avatar

Possibly WSJ is trying to rebuild their relationship with Trump after releasing the Epstein info?

Rick Massimo's avatar

Focus on his background. Because after he sits in a room with anyone from Kash Patel’s FBI, whatever he’s going to be reported as saying will be whatever they want him to say.

Daniel Pease's avatar

"They're Eating the Dogs, they're eating the cats, they're eating the pets of the people that live there!"