I suppose it was too much to expect Mike Pence to grow a backbone and do the right thing by testifying before the grand jury without a protracted fight. His lawyers reportedly intend to challenge the subpoena Jack Smith served on him on a novel ground—by claiming that the Speech and Debate clause of the Constitution protects from disclosure the conversations he had with ex-president Trump around violating his constitutional authority on January 6.
The Maga people aren't fond of him but the rest of us have little use for him either. He doesn't get it and I can't imagine any big money will back him. How can he be so tone deaf?
Figured something like this would happen. It just boggles my mind mind. Like I legitimately question whether I'm sane or not sometimes. I just don't understand what I am witnessing and what they are perceiving, it's like we're living in two different worlds.
They almost hung him once ... they are likely to try again if he goes against Trump. I too would do anything I could to save my head from be severed from my body ...
but, Jay, - the Speech and Debate clause says "They shall in all Cases, EXCEPT TREASON, FELONY AND BREACH OF THE PEACE, be privileged from ,,,,". Isn't the underlying issue precisely about Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace? if so, the clause wouldn't pertain ...right? ( Just for the record, I am NOT an attorney :)
What's really disgusting is that he basically said what he'd say under oath in front of a grand jury in his book. Fuck him. Don't buy his book. Don't even take it out of the library.
Jay, I am finding your essays valuable, and appreciate what you are doing to present facts and insights. Grateful that I could take your posts for a test drive. I subscribed today to support what you are doing. 😀
Reading this just adds to my list of “final straws”. . . its just that they keep coming. I have lost any semblance of belief that we have the “rule of law” in this country. Its gone -- shredded by the republicans and not just the MAGAs. Starting with the supreme court totally politicized: the utter hypocrisy of Amy Barrett’s confirmation, the complete absence of ethics, ignoring of settled law etc etc. That we see in real time the crimes committed by trump and so many republicans in attempting insurrection, ignoring subpoenas, successfully delaying justice at every turn. More than two years later and not one of the higher ups even indicted.
used to think it was a bad joke that trump bragged about being able to kill someone on 5th Avenue and not lose votes -- and I’d add, probably never be held accountable either -- but its true. Then there’s the ultimate liar Santos who now holds a position of great importance, one that potentially can effect the security of our country. What has happened? I don’t recognize the country I’m living in. How can we turn this around? No matter how many postcards I write or calls I make, it isn’t just at the ballot box (maybe that will help with the supreme court in decades?) any more. How can we have hope?
I appreciate your posts very much, Jay. I've just had it with no justice, no accountability etc.
Thanks for posting the actual clause, I had never looked it up.
Q: the clause clearly protects "speech or debate *IN* either house (of congress)". How is this being stretched to cover any words that come out of any congressman's mouth at any location? I know Graham's use of it was rejected, but how can testifying about someone asking you to commit a crime, not in either house of congress, possibly be classed as "speech or debate in either house of congress"?
George Cravens, I had to chuckle when I saw you used the word “slimy” to describe Pence. That was the first word that came to mind when I read Jay’s words.
While watching MSNBC, It was explained that Pence did not obey the subpoena from the J6 committee because of the separation of powers, between the executive and legislative branches. Now he does not want to obey the subpoena from the executive branch because the 'speech and debate clause' of the legislative branch protects him from the DOJ.
"Congress has no right to my testimony," Pence said.
The Maga people aren't fond of him but the rest of us have little use for him either. He doesn't get it and I can't imagine any big money will back him. How can he be so tone deaf?
As far as I’m concerned, he just proved himself to be “party first”. I never want to hear him claim he puts God and his family before others.
Figured something like this would happen. It just boggles my mind mind. Like I legitimately question whether I'm sane or not sometimes. I just don't understand what I am witnessing and what they are perceiving, it's like we're living in two different worlds.
We are living in different worlds!
They almost hung him once ... they are likely to try again if he goes against Trump. I too would do anything I could to save my head from be severed from my body ...
but, Jay, - the Speech and Debate clause says "They shall in all Cases, EXCEPT TREASON, FELONY AND BREACH OF THE PEACE, be privileged from ,,,,". Isn't the underlying issue precisely about Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace? if so, the clause wouldn't pertain ...right? ( Just for the record, I am NOT an attorney :)
What's really disgusting is that he basically said what he'd say under oath in front of a grand jury in his book. Fuck him. Don't buy his book. Don't even take it out of the library.
I absolutely loathe these spineless cowards.
Pence thinks he will someday be president. How naive and delusional.
Thank you for this explanation of this ploy. Delay, deflect, business as usual.
Jay, I am finding your essays valuable, and appreciate what you are doing to present facts and insights. Grateful that I could take your posts for a test drive. I subscribed today to support what you are doing. 😀
I second your sentiment. Jay is invaluable in blazing a path through all the chaos.
😉
Reading this just adds to my list of “final straws”. . . its just that they keep coming. I have lost any semblance of belief that we have the “rule of law” in this country. Its gone -- shredded by the republicans and not just the MAGAs. Starting with the supreme court totally politicized: the utter hypocrisy of Amy Barrett’s confirmation, the complete absence of ethics, ignoring of settled law etc etc. That we see in real time the crimes committed by trump and so many republicans in attempting insurrection, ignoring subpoenas, successfully delaying justice at every turn. More than two years later and not one of the higher ups even indicted.
used to think it was a bad joke that trump bragged about being able to kill someone on 5th Avenue and not lose votes -- and I’d add, probably never be held accountable either -- but its true. Then there’s the ultimate liar Santos who now holds a position of great importance, one that potentially can effect the security of our country. What has happened? I don’t recognize the country I’m living in. How can we turn this around? No matter how many postcards I write or calls I make, it isn’t just at the ballot box (maybe that will help with the supreme court in decades?) any more. How can we have hope?
I appreciate your posts very much, Jay. I've just had it with no justice, no accountability etc.
Thanks for posting the actual clause, I had never looked it up.
Q: the clause clearly protects "speech or debate *IN* either house (of congress)". How is this being stretched to cover any words that come out of any congressman's mouth at any location? I know Graham's use of it was rejected, but how can testifying about someone asking you to commit a crime, not in either house of congress, possibly be classed as "speech or debate in either house of congress"?
Thanks for the summary.
Seems that Pence is confirming my opinion that he is a slimy spineless scumwad. No surprise.
George Cravens, I had to chuckle when I saw you used the word “slimy” to describe Pence. That was the first word that came to mind when I read Jay’s words.
Uh, what about those exceptions: felony and breach of the peace?
Well poo.
While watching MSNBC, It was explained that Pence did not obey the subpoena from the J6 committee because of the separation of powers, between the executive and legislative branches. Now he does not want to obey the subpoena from the executive branch because the 'speech and debate clause' of the legislative branch protects him from the DOJ.
"Congress has no right to my testimony," Pence said.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/11/16/mike-pence-says-he-will-not-testify-before-jan-6-committee-in-new-interview/?sh=28dffaf942a2
Fingers crossed that hell is real.