Read Heather Cox Richardson’s June 27th offering. I think she has the more clear-headed take on this, and she speaks for me and what I saw last night. The political left needs to get a grip, IMO.
HCR speaks for me as well. I really wish everyone would take a breath and stop hitting the panic button so often. Yao all are feeding the flames. Believe me when I say, no one needs to be beating President Biden up over his performance last night. I’m certain he’s probably doing enough of that himself. Panic isn’t a good look either. For heaven’s sake, redirect your focus. This President has done a masterful job of running this country and setting it aright after the disaster that the felon left behind. He had a rather punishing overseas schedule then locked himself down for w week’s debate prep. Then he had the temerity to catch a damn cold! For shame! And pundits and others on the comments pages are talking about sending him to the glue factory. It’s just disgusting. I’m with not only Heather but Keith Olberman as well. That was no debate. CNN, Jake Tapper and Dana Bash should all dig a hole, jump into it and pull it closed over themselves. What they perpetrated last night was journalistic infamy.
Thank you for expressing my thoughts so well. Panic is not a good look. I wish certain pundits (Claire McCaskill, for example) had kept their mouths shut last night, taken a deep breath, and thought more carefully about what to say. More of them need to do what Jay is doing today, and offer a mea culpa for fanning the flames. Last night was not a disaster, but it was a reminder (to me, anyway) that the popular media is in it for ratings, clicks, and money. Not all of them, not all journalists, but CNN definitely showed last night that they are not actually interested in fair reporting.
And that CNN lies as well and as easily as Trump. What happened to the real time fact-checking they SAID they were going to offer? Instead we got the factcheck too late to be of any use--not that they needed to tell us that just about everything Trump said was lies.
Someone once said—sorry I can’t attribute credit as I do not remember—that if one person says it is raining outside and another says it isn’t, you do not ask them to debate their position, you open the damn door and look.
CNN just let the words go without challenging the validity of the claim. Frankly, I no longer watch CNN and haven’t for a long time because they invite idiots to provide counterpoints.
They did say that they were not going to do fact checking during the debate.
I thought that was wrong but I can understand it since it's almost impossible.
Part of me thought they should have had the debate on a 20 or 30 second delay and anytime trump (or Biden for that matter) lied a real whopper (not just a little eliding of the truth) that an air horn should blast out when they were saying the lie. Now if they had done that, trump's time would have deafened us all but it would be nice to see the lies caught and stomped to death.
People are SO afraid of Trump and end up focusing on every little misstep that Biden takes rather than focusing on how truly awful Trump is every minute of every day.
I disagree. Both Bush and Obama had terrible first debates. Plus please tell me what policies or ideas that trump provided? Or are you too busy getting an abortion three days after your baby is born?
One guy was tired, the other guy was doing crazy talk. trump did not answer one question. He did not have one policy to either tout from his first stint or that he would do in his proposed second term nor how it would help Americans. He was a fire hose of lies.
I could only follow the first hour through Jay's live comments link, then listened on the radio as I drove home. A commenter asked why the moderators were addressing Trump as "President Trump". President Biden could have simply addressed him, pointedly, as Mr Trump. When Trump taunted Biden about ever firing anyone, Biden could have shut him down with "I fired you." The message can be simple.
I also thought when Trump claimed that the withdrawal from Afghanistan was the worst point in American history, Biden should have told him no, January 6th was the lowest point in US history.
Or that the withdrawal from Afghanistan was all set up by trump. It was his plan and his failures - like the fact that they didn't/wouldn't process Afghan visa for about a year before the withdrawal. The trump administration's plan was to abandon the Afghans like they did the Kurds (remember the Kurds? everyone forgets what trump did to them.)
The problem is, as I see it, is that all of this "what Biden SHOULD have said" is irrelevant. He didn't say it and it presents two distinct problems: (a) he let serious issues that could have provided a basis for attacking Trump go unchallenged, leaving people who are turning off the coverage after the debate itself with impressions that what Trump said is true and (b) it raises the question is he still sharp enough to even KNOW when to provide such challenges? This is my biggest quandry. Biden's performance was NOT what I expect of a President. Can we excuse it? Of course we can, but will enough people be with us EVEN if Biden can right this ship and start saying the right things regularly? I don't know and honestly I am not sure I am willing to take that risk. He is 81 years old. I remember my father when he was 81 years old. I am 73 myself and I know I don't have the same gusto I had at 37.
Sorry, I understand people want to believe in this, but I am very concerned that following this path is simple doom. I have watched every debate since 1968 and this was, without question, right up there with the GWHBush v Dukakis debate of 1988. It was a debacle and I simply don't see how the Democrats survive this with Biden leading the ticket.
I made myself watch the entire 90 minutes, yelling at my TV much of the time. Afterwards, I took some very deep breaths, told myself not to panic, and went to bed. Today is another day, and we still have a few months before November; much can happen between now and then.
Hindsight is 20-20. I can’t even begin to count all the times I wished I had said something other than what I said. President Biden had a bad night. I don’t think he felt well. But we all have occasional bad times; every single one of us does. Give him a break, give him a donation and continue to work towards saving this country from #34.
You speak truly. Yet, simple as it could have been to do, it wasn’t done.
I’ll bet nothing in the debate prep readied Biden to do just as you say, and in addition, call out lies as lies, as in, “there you go again, Mr. Trump, with another lie.”
Over and over again.
Maybe Biden didn’t recognize the lies as they came by.)
He knew they were lies. The man is not an imbecile.
But you are correct that his team should have coached him better on dealing with a bully. I think they were going for a presidential look of countering crazy with facts and figures. The problem is that doesn't work again the Gish gallop. There are too many lies coming at you rapid fire. Which do you focus on? You only have a few minutes and if you spend them refuting the lies with facts and figures, the point that you were going to make is left in the dust because of the time limit.
Next debate prep, they need to go over some better strategies since they know exactly what trump will do.
I agree that was no debate. The format should have included fact checking, but then the debate would have run to 4 hours. President Biden has a cold and is working in spite of it. I've done that myself and know how hard it is to speak an extended length of time, and how loggy you feel. A part of me hopes he gave it to Trumpy!
But this was a decision made by BIDEN's people (and Trump's too, of course). They could have resisted but they didn't. Sorry, Biden doesn't get a pass on that, he and his people agreed to those terms. I am surprised so many people are attacking CNN about this. They did what the parties to the debate agreed to do.
If Biden had insisted on fact-checking, I expect there would have been no debate. of course, that is just my opinion, but it is what I have gleaned from the various reportages post-debate. Trump hated the fact checking that kept being done in 2020 and he (or his team) kaboshed it for this debate.
Your comment suggests that you haven't been watching much about Trump over the past 8 years. Have you seen HIM compromise? Ever?
And Biden WANTED this debate, because in his mind (apparently) he wanted to prove to the world that he was still completely able to have a debate like this and win. Sadly he was 100% wrong on that. He probably would have been better off to NOT have this debate, although in the end, he is WAY behind and he needs to do SOMETHING to catch up.
I have been watching everything in the past 8 years. And yes, if there was fact checking, trump would have walked away. Like I said, compromises happen.
kudos!>"CNN, Jake Tapper and Dana Bash should all dig a hole, jump into it and pull it closed over themselves. What they perpetrated last night was journalistic infamy."
I really find that statement to be very insulting. The terms of the debate were decided by the parties (Trump and Biden and their teams), CNN simply agreed to them and followed them. It was NOT their fault.
I assume (of course, just my supposition) that if they hadn't agreed to the "no fact checking during the debate by the moderators or the network" then there wouldn't have been a debate. Maybe THAT would have been better for Biden, but he is behind in the polls so I assume he felt he needed to concede some points in order to get Trump up there on the mark.
You need to go listen to the analysis by Keith Olbermann, who was a professional journo and worked setting up a similar debate between presidential primary candidates, for an opinion based in knowledge.
The bottom line is that our free press has the duty to inform the people, and that is the only reason they are the free press...and they have failed en masse from 2016 on, including in this incident. But go listen to Olbermann explain it. His post-debate vid is on youtube.
I follow Keith Olberman and have for several decades even when he did sports. So no need to lecture me on his positions. But politics doesn't exist in the sphere of the "free press" anymore. You can wring your hands about that, but debates are "shows" and are sponsored by cereal companies and car manufacturers. To say that not having fact checking is a failure of the "free press" is sticking your head in the sand. The free press wasn't even present at that debate and couldn't ever have been (Trump certainly wouldn't have permitted it, and probably Biden either).
I think it did help that she probably took a very deep breath and watched all the post debate stuff before writing. Jay's comment, which I know we all forgive him for, was very knee jerk. Honestly I watched the first 15 mins and had to turn it off. I came back later and thought Biden was doing better. I did feel a lot better this morning after reading HCR's post.
Maybe that’s the difference. I watched the whole thing and did a centering meditation to get my fears under control. Fear is just a bad place to live - I’m OLD enough to know that LOL! My bigger fear now is that all of the hot takes will serve to completely take the focus off of Trump’s appalling debate performance on the merits, which it seems to be doing. Never let them see you sweat is good advice in politics - Trump benefits from no expectations and Biden is harmed by unrealistic expectations (besides having to disprove a negative no matter how many times he has already done so). We’re all in this together.
Exactly. Too many good sound bites came off of this in the beginning unfortunately. Too many people were already saying "look at this proof that Biden has dementia" and that was from doctored sound bites. UGH
I think that Biden warmed up as it went along, it was just too little too late to save the bad impression.
I think that working against the gishgallop is pretty much impossible when you have such a prolific liar. It would have taken all of Biden's time to address only half of the lies.
I totally agree with you that Biden got better, and of course Trump's lies are legendary. But the problem Biden had was much worse IMHO. He was often (particularly at the beginning but also throughout the debate) incoherent and unable to frame simple sentences that made sense. He made serious mistakes while talking which is clearly signs of aging (I had an 80+ year old dad and watched it happen to him).
There is no question that he is smarter than Trump, but what is important, particularly in a debate, is the ability to communicate that. And Biden failed, pretty miserably in my estimation.
I am reading all the "day after" comments which say "don't be so upset, it was just one debate, Biden will do better". My fear is that he no longer has any time to right this ship. It wasn't that he was leading by a lot and lost his lead. He was so far behind going into the debate and now he will be further behind. Politics often requires quick judgements, and I think the best one to make now is to ask Biden to step aside.
Thanks for the link, I was particularly moved by the following paragraph:
"And suggesting that we abandon Joe Biden because he did not “win” one debate in the eyes of the media is unforgivable. When Trump was convicted of 34 felonies, his supporters rallied around him. When he was adjudicated to be a sexual abuser, his supporters rallied around him. When he was fined hundreds of millions of dollars for running fraudulent businesses in New York, his supporters rallied around him. So, when Joe Biden has an off night in a debate against a geyser of lies, we are going to abandon him? Seriously???? We are better than that, we are tougher than that, and we should be more loyal than that."
Did all of you say, when Trump's supporters rallied around him after he was convicted, "Hey, that's so cool, his supporters didn't desert him even after he was convicted of 34 felonies!" I would hope not. Making good political decisions is important. It is also true that that kind of knee-jerk support is NOT what Democrats should want for their candidates. It is the very REASON we hate the MAGA crowd, because they can NOT think for themselves and they simply get in line behind an idiot like Trump. That is NOT what I stand for as a die-hard leftist Democrat for 50+ years. I want much better than that, and that is why I think Biden needs to step aside.
You need to stop trying to justify your working so hard to undermine one of the best Presidents we have ever had, and start to deal with ALL the facts.
Why? I have every right to my opinion. I have been a fervent supporter of Biden when many weren't, but now it is clear he is past his "Sell By" date. So many people agree with me and I think too many people are apologizing for his horrible performance last night. It is SAD that he is too old, but he is.
I couldn’t agree more strongly, how could anyone come off looking bad when compared to that incoherent liar? Everything he said was a lie … some of us caught that right away. The flaws were first in the lack of moderation, then the absence of fact-checking and then with the President’s lack of energy, a far third given the performance of his felonious opponent. Get a grip.
The lack of moderation was a pre-determined decision made by the network and the two candidates (or at least their seconds) so it is really erroneous to criticize that. They actually did a pretty good job keeping things on focus, I thought. When Trump avoided answering a question, they simply asked it again as they had agreed they would do. The absence of fact-checking DURING the debate was also agreed to, so while we may all wish they hadn't, that was exactly how the debate was supposed to play out. Both candidates knew this going in. And the President's lack of energy, well, that is basically on him. Sorry he got sick, that happens to all of us, but it shows, that when you get sick at age 81, it isn't the easiest thing to "kick". And it begs the question, is that who we want leading the country and making decisions in crises?
I read both now, Heather Cox Richardson and Robert Hubbell. I feel better know. We need to do everything possible to defeat the MAGA crazies and their puppet leader.
I am glad she is going to be speaking to Democrats Abroad a group I belong to.
I did not watch the debates. I live in Germany where the Democrats Abroad group was discussing their reactions to the debates. It took place at 3 am for me and I was asleep. I do not need to watch debates when I am very clear in support of Biden and have not been concerned about his age. First of all, I am not worried about him because of his age. Secondly, he has a capable, bright, VP in Kamala Harris, and she would step in if need be. She is not only good in her own right, but also has had 4 years of tutelage under Biden. I trust Jill Biden too, to be in touch with whether her husband needed to step down. I cannot say the same of Melania. As a pragmatist, a sitting president should never step aside for someone else if he possibly go on. I just cannot believe how many people could not accept that one bad night does not a bad president make. I am glad Jay has come around to it. Both Prof. Heather Cox Richardson and Jeff Tiedrich talked about the Gish Gallop in their Substacks, which is the effect that Trump created by just stream of consciousness talking about so many different things--known to stump stutterers.
Prof. Ruth Ben-Ghiat predicted that Trump would behave just as he did and thrive in her Substack Lucid, which is what many seem not to have been prepared for. This is what she wrote after the debates. She is an expert in fascism and her title says it all.
Let us hope Biden is feeling well when they have their next debate. Let us hope that the moderators actually shut Trump off when his time is up, and not just Biden. Let us hope that someone finds a way to real time display fact checking during the debate. Let us hope that Biden's team develop a strategy to handle the Gish Effect, and let us hope that older Americans do not place so much hope in Biden's debating skills, but keep it in his governance skills. Let us hope that the Swing voters sound like the one Tiedrich has presented in his Substack letter, and let us hope that our media can still learn to rise to the occasion of this election and report on Project 2025 and the fascist takeover Trump plans, not just Joe Biden's speech gaffs and age.
I hope you are right, Margaret. Because another Trump presidency could easily be the end of our democracy. That said, I think you are wrong here. Biden needs to be replaced by someone who can beat Trump and Biden at 81 (85 at the end of his Presidency if he is elected again) is just too feeble to be the right guy, sadly too, because I really do like most of what he has done in four years. But watching on Thursday made my heart sink. People can excuse it as his being sick that day, but what I saw wasn't sickness, it was feebleness. He is past his "Best By" date, and we all need to face that fact and get a Democratic candidate who can beat Trump in November. That is what a political party is supposed to do. Not to sycophantically support a candidate without critical evaluation, but to deliver the best candidate for the job... if anyone still thinks that is Biden, I have a bridge I would love to sell them.
I swear I will read all this, Jay. But pardon an impulsive reply at present. Thanks for reconsidering. I saw the frail old guy, but I’m about to bust with rage over ageism. Aging is hard, people. It depletes you. But it doesn’t change your soul. Joe Biden is a good man. TFG is a horrible example of humanity. And CNN is dead to me for not checking his outrageous lies. I’m voting for whoever runs as the Democrat for President. The nation can work through any problem and infirm Pres Biden might present. TFG will ruin the lives of most of us. No one wants to live in the Gilded Age but the 400.
Thanks for the remark about aging...I'm just into my 8th decade and boyhowdy, aging is not for sissies! And I'm a very fortunate golden oldie, because I can still ride my (non-electric) bicycle, hike 3 or 4 miles and enjoy travel. Not everyone is so lucky; osteo-arthritis is a misery as is degenerative disc disease. I, too, would rather have a somewhat frail President Biden than to have the demented, convicted felon elected as president.
PS: one of the things that was claimed as a Biden lie was that Trump intends to end Social Security. Well, perhaps Trump hasn't SAID that, but he will implement Project 2025 on Day One and Project 2025 has targeted both SS and Medicare as programs they wish to either privatize or end altogether.
The thing about trump not going to end SS - I think that fact check was wrong. And it also goes back to stuff the trump has said, and then walked back when advised that it would piss off too many of their own voters. But trump has said stuff about cutting it back and letting the program go bankrupt with the RNC policy ideas.
Ageism is real and so is aging. I'm a committed anti-ageism activist and have been vocal about the ageism aimed at President Biden. But we must all come to terms with the reality of last night's debate and its impact on this election season.
The reality is that Trump did not increase his base, thus he still doesn't have enough people to win the election. He played to his base, but that base lost the House in 2018, lost the presidency in 2020, did not deliver a predicted red wave, and has gotten smaller since Trump's conviction. This in my opinion is not going to be a deciding moment in this election
Pundits say Trump didn't increase his base which is super important, we don't want more voters wanting to vote for him. I think I'll worry about disillusionment among Dems when it matters which will be in the fall. As I've said before, if you want to vote in 2028 you have to vote Biden in 2024. And that's the message we have to pound
My feeling as well! Thank you. I will share your important message. I really believe that's it's not about the President being elderly but it's about Harris being in the position to be President if something should happen to Biden!
Nothing but love for you brother. It takes a lot to reflect and do what you did here. I think you’re right, you deserve to cut yourself a break. I felt as if Biden won, because I compared him to Trump from all the angles. And I saw an empty suit in Trump full of lies and racist hate. Biden had a raspy voice, but he did better than Trump. https://www.dworkinsubstack.com/p/biden-wins-debate
Better than Trump just by staying alive every day and opening his eyes to a brand new day. Trump opens his eyes and it’s the same damn day over and over and over again. He hasn’t had a new thought ever. Just a repeat of old regurgitated bullshit.
I’m surprised no one is factoring in the historical fact that whatever Trump says is projection and that could include that Trump is “jacked up” on something.
The media reaction really upset me. At the end of the day, there's only one election in my lifetime that was heavily affected by debates, and that was Reagan vs Carter. All the others were forgettable and we'll forget this one as well. As a lifelong stutterer, I cringe at media criticizing Biden for his speech. Stuttering is hard, and the more you think about it the worse it gets. President Biden has still done nearly all the things we wanted him to do during his tenure. And Trump is still a lying asshole. It was mentioned as an aside from one pundit, but the main thing is that Trump is not likely to have increased his base given his constant lying. And that's all that actually matters.
I'm 45 and I've begun having senior moments. We have to take them with grace, forgive ourselves and move forward.
Senior moments are ok, it's not a sign of fault or failure but one of aging gracefully. While Biden shouldn't need our forgiveness he does deserve our support as he doesn't stand alone in life and certainly not as President.
He is supported by a staff of some of the best minds in their areas of expertise, we are the best minds in this country at calling out and preventing fascism. He needs our support now more than ever!
Wow, when I read comments like "he deserves our support" I wonder what people think this is all about. There is no "deserves" here. He needs to EARN our support. The past is meaningless, the present is EVERYTHING. He fumbled the ball on his own 1 yard line and the opponent is now ready to score a quick touchdown (in fact he pretty much already did that).
HE IS TOO OLD TO BE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. I am sorry that people may call that ageist or discriminatory, or whatever. But this isn't a contest to elect the hall monitor, folks. It is the election for the highest office in the United States, for a four year term. We see what Biden is like today, imagine what he will be like in four more years.
I hate age discrimination. I don't want ANYONE telling anybody when they are too old to do something. But this isn't some side job. This is the most important job in the world. This isn't AGE discrimination, it is competence discrimination, and he is simply no longer competent to do this job and he certainly isn't the BEST person around to do it. There are SO MANY people who are obviously more competent (I won't bother to list them but you all know who they are).
Stop acting like lemmings following the old saw "hey, we owe him this". We owe him nothing. He did a great job as President and it is now time for him to retire and let someone else step in.
Thank you for this. I was dismayed by your earlier post and am glad to read that you have reconsidered and put things in perspective. Whatever Joe's shortcomings, he is a strong and effective leader and negotiator - points you made eloquently. It is too late for substitutes. We need to stand behind our President and continue to point out his felonious and devious opponent as the failed human being that he is. Keep reminding people that Trump is neither worthy nor competent.
Why is it too late for substitutes? Since when? If Biden had a heart attack tomorrow, would you say the same thing? "Oh well, Joe's dying, its too late for substitutes, lets all just vote for Trump." REALLY? Is that how our political system is supposed to work?
No, we are supposed to do our best to put up our best candidate. And if anyone seriously thinks that Biden is the best we have, we really ARE doomed...
Dems want a hero. No Dem candidate is riding in to save us. That's the fear we felt last night and it's real.
This should be a wakeup call too:
1️⃣Joe can't fight the lies on his own. No magic candidate can.
2️⃣The media is failing - badly. They are addicted to MAGA junk and they have surrendered all effort to provide informative accurate content. No illusions about this now - They are click hunters chasing the MAGA high, nothing more.
The fight for truth and democracy is ours. If we want to preserve our country and our freedom, we have to fight with the passion and skill of people who know how much is at stake. No heroes are on the horizon. Just us.
The headlines have always been bad for the past few years. It's all the right wing pundits they have on staff and the articles of Biden bad, trump inevitable that are making me nuts. Right now, I'm guessing they are teeing up a lot of Democrats in Disarray articles.
NYT - started with a hatred of both Clintons and has grown to a hatred of all Democrats. It's not Russians, it's just Americans who want to hate on Democrats just for kicks.
Sir Mark Thompson. British/ London based. Current CEO of CNN. Parent company Warner Media Disney Discovery. Board fired the last CEO to "move in a different direction" last year. Thompson is formerly the CEO of the NYT. I also wondered. Maybe this has something to do with it (& maybe not).
Plus they have to be young and sexy.... But not a woman because a woman can't win and if you go with a minority the chins wag that Obama was a unicorn and you will never elect another black president.... It goes on and on.
I also have an issue with Americans in general about "That Woman." People say - I would vote for a women with no problem, but not that woman. The problem is that any woman who runs becomes That Woman. When they aren't running, they are great. Look at Hillary Clinton, before she ran she had great likability and respect numbers. People thought she was an ok senator and a good Secretary of State. Once she announced she was running, it all turned around.
Thank you for this. I too spent a night of fretful tossing and turning but reading HCRs assessment of the evening, this morning, was helpful as well. All we can do is move forward and battle on, because our democracy and our lives will depend upon it. LFG.
Unfortunately, the Unsupreme court just handed down a decision this morning that will make it harder to finger and convict the J6 insurrectionists. Time to either expand the damn court OR impeach the flippin' corrupt "gratuity" takers on the Court.
We got through this every time Biden overprepares and stresses himself out enough to stutter. His head cold didn't help matters.
Fortunately, undecided Latino voters in CNN's and Univision's focus groups remembered Joe's stutter and didn't make believe, as the pundits who want Trump back for ratings or whose favorite politicians lost to Biden in the primaries did, that stuttering is sign of a mental deficit. They heard Biden power through his cold and his stutter to answer each question fairly and to the best of his knowledge with the time limitations. They also heard Trump refusing to answer the questions except with lies that were usually also irrelevant lies.
I noticed that the focus group that CNN had in Arizona is that all of them were Republicans who had gravitated away from trump. So great that they don't want trump, but how about a mixed group of Republicans and Democrats. When are the Liberal Safaris going to start where they go to coffee houses (or yoga classes?) to talk to Democrats about their hopes and dreams? Why do they only talk to Republicans?
Thank you for this, Jay. We needed to hear what HCR wrote and now this from you. I understand how difficult this is, but a bad night does not make the man. Newsom stated ‘ Biden has had our back, now we need to have his’. A Californian here and have not always agreed with him, but he is so correct.
The problem with the replace Biden pundits is that they haven’t thought it through. The only replacement that could spend Biden’s war chest is VP Harris, and I'm not seeing any calls for her to lead the ticket. How do they think a new candidate can possibly raise the money required to run, not to mention win? Also, how do you think African-American women would feel if she was passed over for a white man like Newsom or even a white woman like Whitmer? Does anyone seriously think Democrats can win without those voters? The idea of replacing Biden isn't practical, even if we all understand the sentiment. Biden is a good President who is showing his age, but Donald Trump is a lying piece of shit who will bring down our democracy. The choice is still clear.
No, they will pass Harris. She has worse numbers than Biden. I’m scared, that the undecided voters will flock to Trump and project 2025 will become a reality. Yes people can have bad days, but this is worse than that. This is not just any election, we won’t be fine in four years if Trump gets in.
You're a good man Jay, grateful for your Mea Culpa. Last night was no debate, just 90 minutes of listening to a confident, gaslighting sociopathic moron verbally abuse and overwhelm a reasonable man for whom public speaking was never a strong point.
Nearly unsub'd you, as I've been doing with all the stupid post titles this morning, but I scanned to the end and saw the mea culpa. Only the pundits are in a twist today. America knows what it needs to do. Join us.
I must have been watching a different debate because ol'Joe CLEARLY wiped the floor with the dementia-suffering convicted felon!! Joe was in total COMMAND, FOCUSED, was a BRILLIANT VISIONARY and FULL OF ENERGY as always and with ABSOLUTELY no MALARKEY!!!
After watching the whole debate, I literally have no idea why the convicted felon agreed to debate Joe - maybe his HUGEEE ego got in the way??? I bet GOP now wishes they had nominated Nikki Haley or someone other than a convicted felon with clear signs of dementia who can't string two words together and make a coherent sentence!!! Maybe the GOP will FINALLY see what we ALL SEE and replace their convicted felon before the convention BUT I am NOT sure how they can do that or even explain it to their STUPID voters!!!
As long as there is no Russian interference again, I predict at least 360+ electoral votes and 100 million votes for Joe! Who else is with me and can wait to go rid'ín with Biden for the next four years?!!! 😏
Since money seems to be the way to counteract what I’m sure the R will be gleefully denouncing Biden’s performance, we all need to chip in what we can to demonstrate our continued support.
I disagree about Biden's debate performance, but I don't think it's fatal at all.
He looked tired and wasn't very animated. He did have a head cold and it showed. He was better later at the after party and today at a speech.
I think he still can win it. He needs to get out on the trail and do speeches, meet and greets, kiss some babies, maybe show up at some state fairs. The folksy campaigning that touches people.
And maybe add a third debate - trump thought he won so he'd likely go for it. And if Biden is in fighting form and has a better strategy to deal with the gish gallop, it could tank trump very badly. Last night, he just had a bad night.
If you think Trump will add another debate, you are really not understanding politics. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Trump decides to cancel the second debate. I mean why take the risk of losing the second one when you so clearly WON the first?
I agree in principal that it would seem likely Trump would WANT to debate again, but at the same time, a win is a win and he might not want to risk losing in a second debate, especially closer to the election. Not Trump himself, he is too much of an egomaniac to back out, but his handlers are a lot smarter and they might push him to back out of debate #2.
Read Heather Cox Richardson’s June 27th offering. I think she has the more clear-headed take on this, and she speaks for me and what I saw last night. The political left needs to get a grip, IMO.
HCR speaks for me as well. I really wish everyone would take a breath and stop hitting the panic button so often. Yao all are feeding the flames. Believe me when I say, no one needs to be beating President Biden up over his performance last night. I’m certain he’s probably doing enough of that himself. Panic isn’t a good look either. For heaven’s sake, redirect your focus. This President has done a masterful job of running this country and setting it aright after the disaster that the felon left behind. He had a rather punishing overseas schedule then locked himself down for w week’s debate prep. Then he had the temerity to catch a damn cold! For shame! And pundits and others on the comments pages are talking about sending him to the glue factory. It’s just disgusting. I’m with not only Heather but Keith Olberman as well. That was no debate. CNN, Jake Tapper and Dana Bash should all dig a hole, jump into it and pull it closed over themselves. What they perpetrated last night was journalistic infamy.
Thank you for expressing my thoughts so well. Panic is not a good look. I wish certain pundits (Claire McCaskill, for example) had kept their mouths shut last night, taken a deep breath, and thought more carefully about what to say. More of them need to do what Jay is doing today, and offer a mea culpa for fanning the flames. Last night was not a disaster, but it was a reminder (to me, anyway) that the popular media is in it for ratings, clicks, and money. Not all of them, not all journalists, but CNN definitely showed last night that they are not actually interested in fair reporting.
And that CNN lies as well and as easily as Trump. What happened to the real time fact-checking they SAID they were going to offer? Instead we got the factcheck too late to be of any use--not that they needed to tell us that just about everything Trump said was lies.
Someone once said—sorry I can’t attribute credit as I do not remember—that if one person says it is raining outside and another says it isn’t, you do not ask them to debate their position, you open the damn door and look.
CNN just let the words go without challenging the validity of the claim. Frankly, I no longer watch CNN and haven’t for a long time because they invite idiots to provide counterpoints.
They did say that they were not going to do fact checking during the debate.
I thought that was wrong but I can understand it since it's almost impossible.
Part of me thought they should have had the debate on a 20 or 30 second delay and anytime trump (or Biden for that matter) lied a real whopper (not just a little eliding of the truth) that an air horn should blast out when they were saying the lie. Now if they had done that, trump's time would have deafened us all but it would be nice to see the lies caught and stomped to death.
Good idea.
Well they could’ve just blown the horn the whole time he had his mouth open.
If his mouth is moving or his fingers typing, you know he's lying.
😂 that would have been great!
People are SO afraid of Trump and end up focusing on every little misstep that Biden takes rather than focusing on how truly awful Trump is every minute of every day.
"Every little misstep"? What world are you in?
The real world. Where the heck are you?
What we watched was a bit more than “a little misstep.”
I disagree. Both Bush and Obama had terrible first debates. Plus please tell me what policies or ideas that trump provided? Or are you too busy getting an abortion three days after your baby is born?
One guy was tired, the other guy was doing crazy talk. trump did not answer one question. He did not have one policy to either tout from his first stint or that he would do in his proposed second term nor how it would help Americans. He was a fire hose of lies.
I could only follow the first hour through Jay's live comments link, then listened on the radio as I drove home. A commenter asked why the moderators were addressing Trump as "President Trump". President Biden could have simply addressed him, pointedly, as Mr Trump. When Trump taunted Biden about ever firing anyone, Biden could have shut him down with "I fired you." The message can be simple.
I also thought when Trump claimed that the withdrawal from Afghanistan was the worst point in American history, Biden should have told him no, January 6th was the lowest point in US history.
Or that the withdrawal from Afghanistan was all set up by trump. It was his plan and his failures - like the fact that they didn't/wouldn't process Afghan visa for about a year before the withdrawal. The trump administration's plan was to abandon the Afghans like they did the Kurds (remember the Kurds? everyone forgets what trump did to them.)
The problem is, as I see it, is that all of this "what Biden SHOULD have said" is irrelevant. He didn't say it and it presents two distinct problems: (a) he let serious issues that could have provided a basis for attacking Trump go unchallenged, leaving people who are turning off the coverage after the debate itself with impressions that what Trump said is true and (b) it raises the question is he still sharp enough to even KNOW when to provide such challenges? This is my biggest quandry. Biden's performance was NOT what I expect of a President. Can we excuse it? Of course we can, but will enough people be with us EVEN if Biden can right this ship and start saying the right things regularly? I don't know and honestly I am not sure I am willing to take that risk. He is 81 years old. I remember my father when he was 81 years old. I am 73 myself and I know I don't have the same gusto I had at 37.
Sorry, I understand people want to believe in this, but I am very concerned that following this path is simple doom. I have watched every debate since 1968 and this was, without question, right up there with the GWHBush v Dukakis debate of 1988. It was a debacle and I simply don't see how the Democrats survive this with Biden leading the ticket.
I'm 75 and I certainly don't have the same "gusto" I had when I was 35 but what I do have is a lot more sense, wisdom and knowledge.
I made myself watch the entire 90 minutes, yelling at my TV much of the time. Afterwards, I took some very deep breaths, told myself not to panic, and went to bed. Today is another day, and we still have a few months before November; much can happen between now and then.
Hindsight is 20-20. I can’t even begin to count all the times I wished I had said something other than what I said. President Biden had a bad night. I don’t think he felt well. But we all have occasional bad times; every single one of us does. Give him a break, give him a donation and continue to work towards saving this country from #34.
You speak truly. Yet, simple as it could have been to do, it wasn’t done.
I’ll bet nothing in the debate prep readied Biden to do just as you say, and in addition, call out lies as lies, as in, “there you go again, Mr. Trump, with another lie.”
Over and over again.
Maybe Biden didn’t recognize the lies as they came by.)
He knew they were lies. The man is not an imbecile.
But you are correct that his team should have coached him better on dealing with a bully. I think they were going for a presidential look of countering crazy with facts and figures. The problem is that doesn't work again the Gish gallop. There are too many lies coming at you rapid fire. Which do you focus on? You only have a few minutes and if you spend them refuting the lies with facts and figures, the point that you were going to make is left in the dust because of the time limit.
Next debate prep, they need to go over some better strategies since they know exactly what trump will do.
I agree that was no debate. The format should have included fact checking, but then the debate would have run to 4 hours. President Biden has a cold and is working in spite of it. I've done that myself and know how hard it is to speak an extended length of time, and how loggy you feel. A part of me hopes he gave it to Trumpy!
But this was a decision made by BIDEN's people (and Trump's too, of course). They could have resisted but they didn't. Sorry, Biden doesn't get a pass on that, he and his people agreed to those terms. I am surprised so many people are attacking CNN about this. They did what the parties to the debate agreed to do.
When working out an agreement, you have to compromise as well to get some of the things you want, you lose other things.
If Biden had insisted on fact-checking, I expect there would have been no debate. of course, that is just my opinion, but it is what I have gleaned from the various reportages post-debate. Trump hated the fact checking that kept being done in 2020 and he (or his team) kaboshed it for this debate.
Your comment suggests that you haven't been watching much about Trump over the past 8 years. Have you seen HIM compromise? Ever?
And Biden WANTED this debate, because in his mind (apparently) he wanted to prove to the world that he was still completely able to have a debate like this and win. Sadly he was 100% wrong on that. He probably would have been better off to NOT have this debate, although in the end, he is WAY behind and he needs to do SOMETHING to catch up.
Unfortunately, this debate was not THAT.
I have been watching everything in the past 8 years. And yes, if there was fact checking, trump would have walked away. Like I said, compromises happen.
This debate was bad but it's not fatal.
You think otherwise, I disagree.
kudos!>"CNN, Jake Tapper and Dana Bash should all dig a hole, jump into it and pull it closed over themselves. What they perpetrated last night was journalistic infamy."
I really find that statement to be very insulting. The terms of the debate were decided by the parties (Trump and Biden and their teams), CNN simply agreed to them and followed them. It was NOT their fault.
I assume (of course, just my supposition) that if they hadn't agreed to the "no fact checking during the debate by the moderators or the network" then there wouldn't have been a debate. Maybe THAT would have been better for Biden, but he is behind in the polls so I assume he felt he needed to concede some points in order to get Trump up there on the mark.
You need to go listen to the analysis by Keith Olbermann, who was a professional journo and worked setting up a similar debate between presidential primary candidates, for an opinion based in knowledge.
The bottom line is that our free press has the duty to inform the people, and that is the only reason they are the free press...and they have failed en masse from 2016 on, including in this incident. But go listen to Olbermann explain it. His post-debate vid is on youtube.
I follow Keith Olberman and have for several decades even when he did sports. So no need to lecture me on his positions. But politics doesn't exist in the sphere of the "free press" anymore. You can wring your hands about that, but debates are "shows" and are sponsored by cereal companies and car manufacturers. To say that not having fact checking is a failure of the "free press" is sticking your head in the sand. The free press wasn't even present at that debate and couldn't ever have been (Trump certainly wouldn't have permitted it, and probably Biden either).
Wholeheartedly agree…
HCR DID write an excellent, piece. 👏👏👏👏
She always does, everyday!
I think it did help that she probably took a very deep breath and watched all the post debate stuff before writing. Jay's comment, which I know we all forgive him for, was very knee jerk. Honestly I watched the first 15 mins and had to turn it off. I came back later and thought Biden was doing better. I did feel a lot better this morning after reading HCR's post.
Maybe that’s the difference. I watched the whole thing and did a centering meditation to get my fears under control. Fear is just a bad place to live - I’m OLD enough to know that LOL! My bigger fear now is that all of the hot takes will serve to completely take the focus off of Trump’s appalling debate performance on the merits, which it seems to be doing. Never let them see you sweat is good advice in politics - Trump benefits from no expectations and Biden is harmed by unrealistic expectations (besides having to disprove a negative no matter how many times he has already done so). We’re all in this together.
Exactly. Too many good sound bites came off of this in the beginning unfortunately. Too many people were already saying "look at this proof that Biden has dementia" and that was from doctored sound bites. UGH
Keep in mind that MAGAland intended to do that regardless.
Yes but he gave them some they didn't have to work for unfortunately
Ah, but Trump did sweat! It was obvious if you looked. He looked sweaty when he came on stage.
I think that Biden warmed up as it went along, it was just too little too late to save the bad impression.
I think that working against the gishgallop is pretty much impossible when you have such a prolific liar. It would have taken all of Biden's time to address only half of the lies.
I totally agree with you that Biden got better, and of course Trump's lies are legendary. But the problem Biden had was much worse IMHO. He was often (particularly at the beginning but also throughout the debate) incoherent and unable to frame simple sentences that made sense. He made serious mistakes while talking which is clearly signs of aging (I had an 80+ year old dad and watched it happen to him).
There is no question that he is smarter than Trump, but what is important, particularly in a debate, is the ability to communicate that. And Biden failed, pretty miserably in my estimation.
I am reading all the "day after" comments which say "don't be so upset, it was just one debate, Biden will do better". My fear is that he no longer has any time to right this ship. It wasn't that he was leading by a lot and lost his lead. He was so far behind going into the debate and now he will be further behind. Politics often requires quick judgements, and I think the best one to make now is to ask Biden to step aside.
Nope, dude, it is the sign of a person who is ill at the time.
Obama with altitude sickness.
Nixon with that staph infection.
Watch it again. This was a critical debate.
And please stop calling me dude :-). Thanks.
Also read Robert Hubbell's pep talk for President Biden:
https://roberthubbell.substack.com/p/joe-biden-is-going-to-win-buck-up
Thanks for the link, I was particularly moved by the following paragraph:
"And suggesting that we abandon Joe Biden because he did not “win” one debate in the eyes of the media is unforgivable. When Trump was convicted of 34 felonies, his supporters rallied around him. When he was adjudicated to be a sexual abuser, his supporters rallied around him. When he was fined hundreds of millions of dollars for running fraudulent businesses in New York, his supporters rallied around him. So, when Joe Biden has an off night in a debate against a geyser of lies, we are going to abandon him? Seriously???? We are better than that, we are tougher than that, and we should be more loyal than that."
And yes, I donated.
I donated too, although didn’t make it monthly😍. I was appalled at the calls to drop out, WTF??!
Did all of you say, when Trump's supporters rallied around him after he was convicted, "Hey, that's so cool, his supporters didn't desert him even after he was convicted of 34 felonies!" I would hope not. Making good political decisions is important. It is also true that that kind of knee-jerk support is NOT what Democrats should want for their candidates. It is the very REASON we hate the MAGA crowd, because they can NOT think for themselves and they simply get in line behind an idiot like Trump. That is NOT what I stand for as a die-hard leftist Democrat for 50+ years. I want much better than that, and that is why I think Biden needs to step aside.
You need to stop trying to justify your working so hard to undermine one of the best Presidents we have ever had, and start to deal with ALL the facts.
Why? I have every right to my opinion. I have been a fervent supporter of Biden when many weren't, but now it is clear he is past his "Sell By" date. So many people agree with me and I think too many people are apologizing for his horrible performance last night. It is SAD that he is too old, but he is.
And if they don't replace him before the election, are you going to vote for tfg?
Thank you.
Ditto
Good!
Thanks for the link, I follow him as well, and just took his suggestion to donate as a vote of confidence for President Biden
I did too
Thanks!
This was really good. Thanks for sharing!
You're welcome.
Good article. It made me smile because I thought - Yes, Biden is Kenough!
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-27-2024
I couldn’t agree more strongly, how could anyone come off looking bad when compared to that incoherent liar? Everything he said was a lie … some of us caught that right away. The flaws were first in the lack of moderation, then the absence of fact-checking and then with the President’s lack of energy, a far third given the performance of his felonious opponent. Get a grip.
The lack of moderation was a pre-determined decision made by the network and the two candidates (or at least their seconds) so it is really erroneous to criticize that. They actually did a pretty good job keeping things on focus, I thought. When Trump avoided answering a question, they simply asked it again as they had agreed they would do. The absence of fact-checking DURING the debate was also agreed to, so while we may all wish they hadn't, that was exactly how the debate was supposed to play out. Both candidates knew this going in. And the President's lack of energy, well, that is basically on him. Sorry he got sick, that happens to all of us, but it shows, that when you get sick at age 81, it isn't the easiest thing to "kick". And it begs the question, is that who we want leading the country and making decisions in crises?
I read both now, Heather Cox Richardson and Robert Hubbell. I feel better know. We need to do everything possible to defeat the MAGA crazies and their puppet leader.
“Get a grip” is a great way at putting it. That’s how we’ll stay strong.
I agree that HCR had a clear headed take on things.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-27-2024
I am glad she is going to be speaking to Democrats Abroad a group I belong to.
I did not watch the debates. I live in Germany where the Democrats Abroad group was discussing their reactions to the debates. It took place at 3 am for me and I was asleep. I do not need to watch debates when I am very clear in support of Biden and have not been concerned about his age. First of all, I am not worried about him because of his age. Secondly, he has a capable, bright, VP in Kamala Harris, and she would step in if need be. She is not only good in her own right, but also has had 4 years of tutelage under Biden. I trust Jill Biden too, to be in touch with whether her husband needed to step down. I cannot say the same of Melania. As a pragmatist, a sitting president should never step aside for someone else if he possibly go on. I just cannot believe how many people could not accept that one bad night does not a bad president make. I am glad Jay has come around to it. Both Prof. Heather Cox Richardson and Jeff Tiedrich talked about the Gish Gallop in their Substacks, which is the effect that Trump created by just stream of consciousness talking about so many different things--known to stump stutterers.
https://substack.com/home/post/p-146065298
Prof. Ruth Ben-Ghiat predicted that Trump would behave just as he did and thrive in her Substack Lucid, which is what many seem not to have been prepared for. This is what she wrote after the debates. She is an expert in fascism and her title says it all.
https://lucid.substack.com/p/a-debate-that-reveals-our-surreal
Let us hope Biden is feeling well when they have their next debate. Let us hope that the moderators actually shut Trump off when his time is up, and not just Biden. Let us hope that someone finds a way to real time display fact checking during the debate. Let us hope that Biden's team develop a strategy to handle the Gish Effect, and let us hope that older Americans do not place so much hope in Biden's debating skills, but keep it in his governance skills. Let us hope that the Swing voters sound like the one Tiedrich has presented in his Substack letter, and let us hope that our media can still learn to rise to the occasion of this election and report on Project 2025 and the fascist takeover Trump plans, not just Joe Biden's speech gaffs and age.
I agree! Geez...Biden does get to have an off night without the whole world collapsing!
EXACTLY!!!
Thank You!
I read her 6/28 offering. Another reason to vote for Biden.
Sorry, but this WB cartoon closer says it all for me:
"Th-th-th- that's all, folks!"
Poor taste. Very poor taste.
Maybe, but probably very true, too.
No, not true. I think Biden comes back from this.
I hope you are right, Margaret. Because another Trump presidency could easily be the end of our democracy. That said, I think you are wrong here. Biden needs to be replaced by someone who can beat Trump and Biden at 81 (85 at the end of his Presidency if he is elected again) is just too feeble to be the right guy, sadly too, because I really do like most of what he has done in four years. But watching on Thursday made my heart sink. People can excuse it as his being sick that day, but what I saw wasn't sickness, it was feebleness. He is past his "Best By" date, and we all need to face that fact and get a Democratic candidate who can beat Trump in November. That is what a political party is supposed to do. Not to sycophantically support a candidate without critical evaluation, but to deliver the best candidate for the job... if anyone still thinks that is Biden, I have a bridge I would love to sell them.
It was a bad night. it happens. Now if he has more bad days, then you have a case but until that happens this is a one off.
You are seeing what you want to see.
I swear I will read all this, Jay. But pardon an impulsive reply at present. Thanks for reconsidering. I saw the frail old guy, but I’m about to bust with rage over ageism. Aging is hard, people. It depletes you. But it doesn’t change your soul. Joe Biden is a good man. TFG is a horrible example of humanity. And CNN is dead to me for not checking his outrageous lies. I’m voting for whoever runs as the Democrat for President. The nation can work through any problem and infirm Pres Biden might present. TFG will ruin the lives of most of us. No one wants to live in the Gilded Age but the 400.
Thanks for the remark about aging...I'm just into my 8th decade and boyhowdy, aging is not for sissies! And I'm a very fortunate golden oldie, because I can still ride my (non-electric) bicycle, hike 3 or 4 miles and enjoy travel. Not everyone is so lucky; osteo-arthritis is a misery as is degenerative disc disease. I, too, would rather have a somewhat frail President Biden than to have the demented, convicted felon elected as president.
PS: one of the things that was claimed as a Biden lie was that Trump intends to end Social Security. Well, perhaps Trump hasn't SAID that, but he will implement Project 2025 on Day One and Project 2025 has targeted both SS and Medicare as programs they wish to either privatize or end altogether.
You’re my hero. I’m in to my seventh decade and I want to keep doing all the things you do, including re-electing Joe.
Exactly. TFG would change Social Security and Medicare...but he wouldn't consider that "getting rid of them."
Project 2025 says it all...clearly and loudly.
The thing about trump not going to end SS - I think that fact check was wrong. And it also goes back to stuff the trump has said, and then walked back when advised that it would piss off too many of their own voters. But trump has said stuff about cutting it back and letting the program go bankrupt with the RNC policy ideas.
Oh, and Chevron was just handed down. Reversed by the Gang of 6.
They also ruled in favor of Jan. 6 rioter:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/supreme-court-rules-for-jan-6-rioter-challenging-obstruction-charge/ar-BB1p4uee?ocid=BingNewsSerp
Oh no!!!
I just read a NYT blurb about that and I'm chewing my keyboard in rage.
Ageism is real and so is aging. I'm a committed anti-ageism activist and have been vocal about the ageism aimed at President Biden. But we must all come to terms with the reality of last night's debate and its impact on this election season.
The reality is that Trump did not increase his base, thus he still doesn't have enough people to win the election. He played to his base, but that base lost the House in 2018, lost the presidency in 2020, did not deliver a predicted red wave, and has gotten smaller since Trump's conviction. This in my opinion is not going to be a deciding moment in this election
I agree…..facts matter.
Let's also consider the potential impact on Democratic turnout and on undecided voters.
Pundits say Trump didn't increase his base which is super important, we don't want more voters wanting to vote for him. I think I'll worry about disillusionment among Dems when it matters which will be in the fall. As I've said before, if you want to vote in 2028 you have to vote Biden in 2024. And that's the message we have to pound
You are so right!!
Thank you for almost busting with rage over ageism (it's nice to know I have company). And you are so on point with all that you said here!
My feeling as well! Thank you. I will share your important message. I really believe that's it's not about the President being elderly but it's about Harris being in the position to be President if something should happen to Biden!
Nothing but love for you brother. It takes a lot to reflect and do what you did here. I think you’re right, you deserve to cut yourself a break. I felt as if Biden won, because I compared him to Trump from all the angles. And I saw an empty suit in Trump full of lies and racist hate. Biden had a raspy voice, but he did better than Trump. https://www.dworkinsubstack.com/p/biden-wins-debate
Better than Trump just by staying alive every day and opening his eyes to a brand new day. Trump opens his eyes and it’s the same damn day over and over and over again. He hasn’t had a new thought ever. Just a repeat of old regurgitated bullshit.
Tomi T Ahonen lists 6 ways Biden won the debate based on substance, not appearances:
"The CLIPS from this debate will damage Trump & GOP
- Roe
- taxes
- NATO
- Jan 6
and most of all, CLIMATE
These debate clips will win votes"
Thanks for this Mary!
It's implied in your list, but also he stated last night that he put 3 SCOTUS judges on the court. That has not been good for the US.
I’m surprised no one is factoring on the historical
I’m surprised no one is factoring in the historical fact that whatever Trump says is projection and that could include that Trump is “jacked up” on something.
Hah! See Palmer Report: https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/one-day-after-the-debate-donald-trump-is-right-back-to-his-usual-confused-senile-self/56839/
He always projects. I’m sure he was on something
The media reaction really upset me. At the end of the day, there's only one election in my lifetime that was heavily affected by debates, and that was Reagan vs Carter. All the others were forgettable and we'll forget this one as well. As a lifelong stutterer, I cringe at media criticizing Biden for his speech. Stuttering is hard, and the more you think about it the worse it gets. President Biden has still done nearly all the things we wanted him to do during his tenure. And Trump is still a lying asshole. It was mentioned as an aside from one pundit, but the main thing is that Trump is not likely to have increased his base given his constant lying. And that's all that actually matters.
I'm 45 and I've begun having senior moments. We have to take them with grace, forgive ourselves and move forward.
Senior moments are ok, it's not a sign of fault or failure but one of aging gracefully. While Biden shouldn't need our forgiveness he does deserve our support as he doesn't stand alone in life and certainly not as President.
He is supported by a staff of some of the best minds in their areas of expertise, we are the best minds in this country at calling out and preventing fascism. He needs our support now more than ever!
He has great support from a staff he has chosen well, and he has a strong vision. He deserves our support.
Wow, when I read comments like "he deserves our support" I wonder what people think this is all about. There is no "deserves" here. He needs to EARN our support. The past is meaningless, the present is EVERYTHING. He fumbled the ball on his own 1 yard line and the opponent is now ready to score a quick touchdown (in fact he pretty much already did that).
HE IS TOO OLD TO BE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. I am sorry that people may call that ageist or discriminatory, or whatever. But this isn't a contest to elect the hall monitor, folks. It is the election for the highest office in the United States, for a four year term. We see what Biden is like today, imagine what he will be like in four more years.
I hate age discrimination. I don't want ANYONE telling anybody when they are too old to do something. But this isn't some side job. This is the most important job in the world. This isn't AGE discrimination, it is competence discrimination, and he is simply no longer competent to do this job and he certainly isn't the BEST person around to do it. There are SO MANY people who are obviously more competent (I won't bother to list them but you all know who they are).
Stop acting like lemmings following the old saw "hey, we owe him this". We owe him nothing. He did a great job as President and it is now time for him to retire and let someone else step in.
The Nixon / JFK debate put paid to Nixon winning at the time.
And that was mostly optics, too. Nixon looked sweaty and with his 5 0'clock shadow, he looked rather shifty and thuggish.
Thank you for this. I was dismayed by your earlier post and am glad to read that you have reconsidered and put things in perspective. Whatever Joe's shortcomings, he is a strong and effective leader and negotiator - points you made eloquently. It is too late for substitutes. We need to stand behind our President and continue to point out his felonious and devious opponent as the failed human being that he is. Keep reminding people that Trump is neither worthy nor competent.
Why is it too late for substitutes? Since when? If Biden had a heart attack tomorrow, would you say the same thing? "Oh well, Joe's dying, its too late for substitutes, lets all just vote for Trump." REALLY? Is that how our political system is supposed to work?
No, we are supposed to do our best to put up our best candidate. And if anyone seriously thinks that Biden is the best we have, we really ARE doomed...
Dems want a hero. No Dem candidate is riding in to save us. That's the fear we felt last night and it's real.
This should be a wakeup call too:
1️⃣Joe can't fight the lies on his own. No magic candidate can.
2️⃣The media is failing - badly. They are addicted to MAGA junk and they have surrendered all effort to provide informative accurate content. No illusions about this now - They are click hunters chasing the MAGA high, nothing more.
The fight for truth and democracy is ours. If we want to preserve our country and our freedom, we have to fight with the passion and skill of people who know how much is at stake. No heroes are on the horizon. Just us.
"The Media is failing - badly." No truer words have been written.
I wonder how much the “media” is owned by the Russians….NYTimes had a hit piece last night and this AM….can’t figure out what happened to NY Times
And now WaPo has a Murdochian on board, and the headlines have become more inflammatory.
The headlines have always been bad for the past few years. It's all the right wing pundits they have on staff and the articles of Biden bad, trump inevitable that are making me nuts. Right now, I'm guessing they are teeing up a lot of Democrats in Disarray articles.
NYT - started with a hatred of both Clintons and has grown to a hatred of all Democrats. It's not Russians, it's just Americans who want to hate on Democrats just for kicks.
Sir Mark Thompson. British/ London based. Current CEO of CNN. Parent company Warner Media Disney Discovery. Board fired the last CEO to "move in a different direction" last year. Thompson is formerly the CEO of the NYT. I also wondered. Maybe this has something to do with it (& maybe not).
Please read this analysis of the "debate" by Heather Cox Richardson.
Learn about what a "Gish gallop" is and how hard it is to debate against that technique due to its flood of blatant dishonesty.
WHY doesn't the media seem to know about this?
WHY doesn't the media more prominently point out the endless stream of lies?
WHY doesn't the media hold Trump accountable as they should?
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-27-2024
Dems want a "perfect" and/or "pure" candidate--there is no such thing.
Plus they have to be young and sexy.... But not a woman because a woman can't win and if you go with a minority the chins wag that Obama was a unicorn and you will never elect another black president.... It goes on and on.
I also have an issue with Americans in general about "That Woman." People say - I would vote for a women with no problem, but not that woman. The problem is that any woman who runs becomes That Woman. When they aren't running, they are great. Look at Hillary Clinton, before she ran she had great likability and respect numbers. People thought she was an ok senator and a good Secretary of State. Once she announced she was running, it all turned around.
Thank you for this. I too spent a night of fretful tossing and turning but reading HCRs assessment of the evening, this morning, was helpful as well. All we can do is move forward and battle on, because our democracy and our lives will depend upon it. LFG.
I'm still ridin' with Biden. We need to imprison Trump and all his MAGAt voters to save our sacred Democracy!
Unfortunately, the Unsupreme court just handed down a decision this morning that will make it harder to finger and convict the J6 insurrectionists. Time to either expand the damn court OR impeach the flippin' corrupt "gratuity" takers on the Court.
We got through this every time Biden overprepares and stresses himself out enough to stutter. His head cold didn't help matters.
Fortunately, undecided Latino voters in CNN's and Univision's focus groups remembered Joe's stutter and didn't make believe, as the pundits who want Trump back for ratings or whose favorite politicians lost to Biden in the primaries did, that stuttering is sign of a mental deficit. They heard Biden power through his cold and his stutter to answer each question fairly and to the best of his knowledge with the time limitations. They also heard Trump refusing to answer the questions except with lies that were usually also irrelevant lies.
https://x.com/capitolhunters/status/1806537928379711591
I noticed that the focus group that CNN had in Arizona is that all of them were Republicans who had gravitated away from trump. So great that they don't want trump, but how about a mixed group of Republicans and Democrats. When are the Liberal Safaris going to start where they go to coffee houses (or yoga classes?) to talk to Democrats about their hopes and dreams? Why do they only talk to Republicans?
I heard they didn’t like Trumps lies, his meanness and his bullying.
Thank you for this, Jay. We needed to hear what HCR wrote and now this from you. I understand how difficult this is, but a bad night does not make the man. Newsom stated ‘ Biden has had our back, now we need to have his’. A Californian here and have not always agreed with him, but he is so correct.
The problem with the replace Biden pundits is that they haven’t thought it through. The only replacement that could spend Biden’s war chest is VP Harris, and I'm not seeing any calls for her to lead the ticket. How do they think a new candidate can possibly raise the money required to run, not to mention win? Also, how do you think African-American women would feel if she was passed over for a white man like Newsom or even a white woman like Whitmer? Does anyone seriously think Democrats can win without those voters? The idea of replacing Biden isn't practical, even if we all understand the sentiment. Biden is a good President who is showing his age, but Donald Trump is a lying piece of shit who will bring down our democracy. The choice is still clear.
No, they will pass Harris. She has worse numbers than Biden. I’m scared, that the undecided voters will flock to Trump and project 2025 will become a reality. Yes people can have bad days, but this is worse than that. This is not just any election, we won’t be fine in four years if Trump gets in.
It’s a waste of time arguing with that jerk. He had a rough night but still answered well to me. Confidence Please.
You're a good man Jay, grateful for your Mea Culpa. Last night was no debate, just 90 minutes of listening to a confident, gaslighting sociopathic moron verbally abuse and overwhelm a reasonable man for whom public speaking was never a strong point.
Yes…totally agree Richard…see my post below about brains and Psychopaths….
Nearly unsub'd you, as I've been doing with all the stupid post titles this morning, but I scanned to the end and saw the mea culpa. Only the pundits are in a twist today. America knows what it needs to do. Join us.
I must have been watching a different debate because ol'Joe CLEARLY wiped the floor with the dementia-suffering convicted felon!! Joe was in total COMMAND, FOCUSED, was a BRILLIANT VISIONARY and FULL OF ENERGY as always and with ABSOLUTELY no MALARKEY!!!
After watching the whole debate, I literally have no idea why the convicted felon agreed to debate Joe - maybe his HUGEEE ego got in the way??? I bet GOP now wishes they had nominated Nikki Haley or someone other than a convicted felon with clear signs of dementia who can't string two words together and make a coherent sentence!!! Maybe the GOP will FINALLY see what we ALL SEE and replace their convicted felon before the convention BUT I am NOT sure how they can do that or even explain it to their STUPID voters!!!
As long as there is no Russian interference again, I predict at least 360+ electoral votes and 100 million votes for Joe! Who else is with me and can wait to go rid'ín with Biden for the next four years?!!! 😏
Since money seems to be the way to counteract what I’m sure the R will be gleefully denouncing Biden’s performance, we all need to chip in what we can to demonstrate our continued support.
I disagree about Biden's debate performance, but I don't think it's fatal at all.
He looked tired and wasn't very animated. He did have a head cold and it showed. He was better later at the after party and today at a speech.
I think he still can win it. He needs to get out on the trail and do speeches, meet and greets, kiss some babies, maybe show up at some state fairs. The folksy campaigning that touches people.
And maybe add a third debate - trump thought he won so he'd likely go for it. And if Biden is in fighting form and has a better strategy to deal with the gish gallop, it could tank trump very badly. Last night, he just had a bad night.
If you think Trump will add another debate, you are really not understanding politics. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Trump decides to cancel the second debate. I mean why take the risk of losing the second one when you so clearly WON the first?
Why would he cancel the 2nd when he thought he won the first? It will be an easy win in his mind. You are correct that he won't add a third.
I agree in principal that it would seem likely Trump would WANT to debate again, but at the same time, a win is a win and he might not want to risk losing in a second debate, especially closer to the election. Not Trump himself, he is too much of an egomaniac to back out, but his handlers are a lot smarter and they might push him to back out of debate #2.
Grateful for you, Jay. We're in this together. Thank you for all you do.