When there are important court filings and victories, it does no one any good to chime in with, “Yeah, but too late” or “They won’t abide by the court order anyway.”
There are at least three big problems with this response.
First, you are capitulating in advance. The first rule in fighting authoritarianism is not to give an inch. Saying we will lose or that it doesn’t matter is contributing to this cynicism.
Second, they are actually counting on your cynicism to win. If the left believes it cannot win, then it will not win. Don’t give them that victory so easily. Fight the urge to give voice to your darkest fears. As I like to remind folks, “Would you walk up to a paramedic trying to save a life and say, ‘Just give up, they’re going to die anyway’?” No. Then please don’t say that to the lawyers and the acitivists who are on the front lines in the court battles against the fascists.
Third, there is no evidence that this administration wants to expend political capital defying court orders. That is a quick ticket to losing a lot more later, as it gives the judicary reason to come down even harder. The goal of the ‘flood the zone’ technique is not to defy the orders in the cases they lose but to throw enough crap around that someone gets nailed with it or they draw a sympathetic judge. And remember, even this Supreme Court has some limits on what it will do for Trump, and it absolutely cannot hear every case. Not even close.
So when I or others post wins, please amplify them, and check yourself if you’re inclined to pee in the Cheerios in the comments. If you’re feeling that way, remind yourself that this is EXACTLY what Trump and Musk want you to feel, then resist it with all you have.
Jay! You are just absolutely awesome. Just a common citizen here, retired third grade school teacher paying close attention to stay on top of the latest developments… While I’m very capable of reading, I tend to listen these days as I take the information in differently and can read later, listening as I drive or sit eating a nutritious snack. All that to say… Your post today covers thoroughly the aspects of what’s happening, the dynamics, considerations, developments, and you’re just so so so clear. Even your pinned comment at the start of comments, cautioning people to stay away from naysayer territory…I’m sure I am one small voice among many feeling deep gratitude for your dedication, capability, clarity, and proactivity. Thank you for being here. Absolutely restacking and sharing because I don’t think there could be a more thorough clear report available.
I keep deflecting the term summary because that implies brevity, hitting just the high points. Your piece covers so much, and therefore is brief in some respects, per topic, and yet there’s so much. You handle it adeptly. Again, so grateful. Thank you.
And Public Citizen… My goodness, I’ve subscribed to them or been a member, whatever you call it, for years and years… Oh my goodness, I’m certainly getting in line to qualify as a groupie and definitely donating and paying attention to do whatever possible to support them. Injunction. Yes, just freeze the status quo and block access. Do no more damage than has already been accomplished. Very, very watchful for developments. Thank you again.
Thank you for that comment, Jay, after all that you have added on today's edition.
I think that those who feel compelled to express in less-than language have not let go of the pain (as much as they may think they have) of the lost election. Any good news is
good and healthy for everyone to absorb and use. Thanks again for explaining so much here.
This is the *extremely* important part that Jay, extremely frustratingly, chose not to discuss.
He is, IMO, unwarranted in his faith in the justice system's ability to stop this coup. This is especially true now that Elon & Company will be emboldened by Speaker of the House Mike Johnson's statement that the dismantling of federal agencies without Congressional oversight is "a welcome development." Jay is right about one thing, this is DEFCON 1, but it involves people who are *far* more committed to their beliefs than we've ever seen, and their support extends beyond Trump.
Now that Elon has Speaker Johnson's support, IMO Trump's committed to this whether he likes it or not. He will be destroyed by the MAGA far right if he willingly backs down. If Trump backs down, I can definitely see Johnson using the moment to set himself up as a challenger in 2028.
Congress and the judiciary do not have the ability to physically enforce laws and court decisions. The U.S. Marshals are part of the Department of Justice, controlled by the Attorney General. The Marshal of the Supreme Court's duties have been reduced to custodian and administrator of the building and its grounds.
The U.S. military getting involved would be illegal for multiple reasons. Even if the uniformed leadership wanted to get their service involved, they legally can't. The President is the Commander in Chief. Trying to illegally get the military involved would likely lead to mass resignations and harm national security.
Lastly, IMO it's also important to note that thls is happening in the District of Columbia. DC isn't a state. Even if there are local laws that were broken, the investigation/prosecution of those crimes is up to the US Attorney for the District of Columbia, who is appointed by the President. There isn't a state DA like Letitia James around to stop this. The DC and/or Capitol Police aren't going to be able to stop this.
Well said and very depressing. This is going to get worse and worse and may not get better in our lifetimes – or ever. Our democracy is collapsing in front of our eyes and not enough people seem to care. Our laws and our constitution depend on the people’s support. Where is the universal outrage?
The universal outrage hasn't happened (and probably won't) because as long as it doesn't personally impact them, most Americans simply just don't care. The others agree with what's going on because they believe they're right, and are actually the majority.
This is why I wrote in response to another poster that the only way this coup is likely going to fail is if the experts simply get out of the way and let Musk and his minions fail. I respect their commitment to their jobs, but collaboration in an effort to prevent widescale damage is the *wrong* move.
When Trump's impoundment EO threatend their benefits his voters, they expressed their outrage and he (partially) backed down. The only way most Americans are going to care about this is when/if payments stop because Musk & Co are incompetent.
There's some precedent here. Musk got fired (while on his honeymoon) from his position as CEO of the company that became Paypal after his unilateral decision to move from Linux to Windows increased fraudulent transactions and cost the company money. All of the network engineers told him not to do it, and predicted what would occur. The company board didn't stop Musk until it cost them.
Same principle here. As long as the experts keep the USG and American people from Musk's ineptitude, everything looks "fine" even though it's not.
The ones who like what’s going on are not the majority, if you’re talking about the ones who voted for trump. I must insist on repeating this again and again. The largest group of voters in America are the non-voters. trump’s voters were NOT a majority of American citizens.
If an individual or organization doesn't receive a social security or other type of disbursement, my question is whether or not a local district attorney can file criminal charges against the actors in question, be it Marko Elez and his helpers or Musk or anyone else involved. Is D.C. a participant in the states' extradition compact?
Chris, echoing Jay’s opening comment, this is not helpful. Peeing in the cheerios is an apt phrase. Instead of telling us we’re doomed, how about you tell us what you’re doing to further the resistance? My local Indivisible group will be at our Senators’ offices tomorrow giving them specific instructions about what we expect from them in this moment. How ‘bout you?
It’s the cowardly Republicans in Congress who could stop this but they’re all afraid of losing their jobs. We need more Adam Kinzinger’s , Liz Cheney’s and Elaine Lauria’s, politicians who put the Constitution before their political careers.
He could be. He’s a physical weakling with a pot belly. But no one has been willing to try and without any legal justification to hold him he’d be right back there.
Citizen's arrest, are you actually serious?!?! This isn't Mayberry and we're not dealing with Barney Fife and Gomer Pyle. Elon Musk and his people most definitely have security. Any agency employee who attempted to execute a citizen's arrest would be laughed at, promptly pushed aside, put on administrative leave, and physically escorted out of the building.
The only way this all fails is if/when the technology collapses. I respect the federal employees commitment to their jobs, but it's the wrong decision in this instance. Elon and his minions need to be allowed to fail to the extent that payments stop and the country is financially harmed.
This isn't the first time Elon Musk's run roughshod over existing technolohical systems because he thinks he's the "smartest man in the room." Musk got fired as CEO of the company that eventually became Paypal because he, against all advice, moved from Linux to Windows. That stupidity increased fraudulent transactions and cost the company money.
I am a complete dunce when it comes to technology. So while all the details of what they’re doing at the treasury (and dept of Ed?) go over my head, I can understand when you say it fails when the technology crashes. Would even that give our Congress leaders new spines? If I don’t get my SS my life grinds to a halt. But theirs won’t.
I don’t understand promoting the idea of allowing millions of Americans to not receive their benefits such as SS, VA disability, ssdi etc on the 1st. Millions would be facing evictions and other scary situations. And if the computers failed and that happened how quickly would be fixed? Probably take a long time. Stopping him before that happens is better.
I completely understand the consequences, and of course I agree stopping him before that happens is the best option.
What I'm getting at is the core of the problem, which really isn't limited to Musk and what he's doing now. The core of the problem is Amercians, particularly Trump voters, don't appreciate federal employees because so much of what the federal government does simply "happens." They don't know, or particularly care, how "the sausage gets made" as long as they get their benefits, or their claims are processed on time, and we don't have another 9/11. A government shutdown doesn't widely impact Americans because Congress has changed the law over the years to ensure the mail's delivered, SS and Medicare benefits are processed, the uniformed military, and many DOD civilians, are on duty despite not getting paid, etc. The majority of the effects of a shutdown are limited to federal employees, contractors, new Medicare/Medicaid/SS beneficiaries or, for example, someone applying for a new passport.
Furthermore, look at the one time Trump's (partially) had to back down already. He backed down on his impoundment EO because it was *his* voters who got scared they weren't going to get their SNAP and other benefits. They contacted their Republican governors and Congressional representatitives, who contacted the White House and forced Trump's staff to re-write that EO.
According to a January 2025 Pew Research report, the only federal agencies more than 50% of Americans view favorably are the National Park Service (+69%), NASA (+55%) and USPS (+51%). Every other agency, and by extension, the employees who work there, are viewed negatively by a majority of Americans.
Trump has (illegally) given Musk and his merry band of lickspittles permission to access computer systems. Musk, as usual, thinks he's the smartest person in the room and doesn't know what he doesn't know. It's the federal employees who are fully trained on these systems who understand the potential impact of the changes being made, and are assisting in an effort to make sure the entire system doesn't crash. If it doesn't crash, to the average voter the whole mess is going to look "overblown" and hardly anybody, least of all Trump, his voters, and Musk, are going to credit the federal employees who stayed and did their jobs despite being horribly treated.
As of 2020, 51% of the 535 members of Congress were millionaires. I couldn't find reliable data newer than that, but the percentage is probably similar. You are correct, a majority of them wouldn't miss a SS check at all. But that would be true even if they *weren't* in Congress.
Here's what matters to them: Votes and public opinion in their state or district. Most of them really do want to keep their jobs, sometimes even because they like helping their constiuents! (Most of those are Democrats, of course.)
The Trump White House was forced to partially back down on that impoundment EO because *his* voters got outraged. SNAP and other government benefits they rely on were potentially going to be temporarily cut off. On social media they collectively lost their minds, and contacted their Republican governors and Congressional representatives. Those governors and Congressional representatives called the White House and forced them to re-write that EO. The voters mattered!
I completely understand the immediate economic carnage the collapse of any of the multiple Treasury payment systems would cause. Unfortunately, I simply don't see another way to teach a large number of Americans (Trump voters) a lesson they *need* to learn without harming innocent people. Part of the reason we're in this mess is Democrats have shied away from a "nuclear option" on *any* issue for over a decade. Now we're basically at DEFCON 1 for our republic, and we're not necessarily winning. Even if Trump/Musk are legally defeated on this, IMO the core problem doesn't go away. The core problem being a large number of Americans simply believe their benefits happen by "magic" and don't appreciate the fact it takes people to get them those benefits.
Then you clearly either don't understand how citizen's arrests work, or who actually physically has power inside a federal building. There is absolutely no way to execute a citizen's arrest in this instance.
Furthermore, should Elon & Co ignore an injuction, that's a *federal* crime.
The US Marshals are controlled by the Attorney General. They wouldn't even bother to respond to a citizen's arrest.
Even if local laws have been broken, prosecutions and criminal investigations in DC are conducted by the US Attorney for the District of Columbia, who is appointed by the President.
You are simply not being anywhere close to realistic.
Then neither were Rosa Parks, MLK, Gandhi, Mandela, the guy who stood in front of the tanks at Tiananmen Square, etc. Do not obey in advance. The symbolism of such a move would be priceless.
In *absolutely no way* did I say or suggest "obey in advance." In fact, I specifically stated the opposte. Federal employees, and I am one, should *not* obey illegal orders. Following an illegal order is actually a felony. They should not even assist Musk and his employees in their illegal actions.
What I did is dispute your assertion that a citizen's arrest can be used to stop Musk and his employees illegal actions. Upon further research, I've since learned that federal law does not even include the concept of a citizen's arrest. These are federal crimes being cmmitted on federal property. Local DC law does not apply.
Depending on how far the employee went in trying to make an illegal citizen's arrest, they could face charges themselves. Your advice would absolutely make somebody's life *much* worse, and do absolutely nothing to stop Musk or his employees.
It's the "eventually" part that worries me. 50 million people died before Hitler was stopped. Putin has been in power 25 years. Stalin and Pinochet died peacefully in comfy beds - not in prisons. So... it would be kind of nice if THESE goons were stopped sooner rather than later.
But, how? tRump will keep them busy at overthrowing the Government until he gets too much heat and then he can and will pardon them. There is so much we need to do if we ever get a chance to fix the Constitution.
you are doing it right now. by promoting the truth about elon and putin's tr45h by reposting and flooding the zone. we must take back our online platforms by subverting the kremlin algorithms whenever possible. bandwidth costs money and the kremlin is running out.
Good for Public Citizen! I fully support their action. However, one additional action would likely have great impact--they should name as defendants the actual engineers who are doing the illegal work, and they should seek damages on behalf of the Government for the costs incurred by the illegal takeover. While Musk might be able to pay the damages, I doubt the engineers would (unless Musk indemnifies them). And there's a good chance those damage claims would not be dischargeable in bankruptcy.
I concur. Let’s send a message that if you aid, abet, or are in any way complicit in Musk’s actions, you will pay for your crimes against the American people, permanently.
When there are important court filings and victories, it does no one any good to chime in with, “Yeah, but too late” or “They won’t abide by the court order anyway.”
There are at least three big problems with this response.
First, you are capitulating in advance. The first rule in fighting authoritarianism is not to give an inch. Saying we will lose or that it doesn’t matter is contributing to this cynicism.
Second, they are actually counting on your cynicism to win. If the left believes it cannot win, then it will not win. Don’t give them that victory so easily. Fight the urge to give voice to your darkest fears. As I like to remind folks, “Would you walk up to a paramedic trying to save a life and say, ‘Just give up, they’re going to die anyway’?” No. Then please don’t say that to the lawyers and the acitivists who are on the front lines in the court battles against the fascists.
Third, there is no evidence that this administration wants to expend political capital defying court orders. That is a quick ticket to losing a lot more later, as it gives the judicary reason to come down even harder. The goal of the ‘flood the zone’ technique is not to defy the orders in the cases they lose but to throw enough crap around that someone gets nailed with it or they draw a sympathetic judge. And remember, even this Supreme Court has some limits on what it will do for Trump, and it absolutely cannot hear every case. Not even close.
So when I or others post wins, please amplify them, and check yourself if you’re inclined to pee in the Cheerios in the comments. If you’re feeling that way, remind yourself that this is EXACTLY what Trump and Musk want you to feel, then resist it with all you have.
Even if a judge finds it illegal who is going to stop it? Who will remove musk and his frat buddies? Who will make sure they didn’t plant code to blow it all up if they aren’t there to stop the event?
Bessent…nope. He let them in
Any of the other confirmations? Nope, they all kiss the ring!
Today democrats in the oversight committee stated they wanted muck to apps for questioning and Comer shut them down stating they were out of order!
There may be law…but there is no one enforcing it!
I imagine it would be very difficult for a guy like Scott Bessent to disobey a court order and risk personal liability, all to protect Musk who has overstepped.
You have far too much faith in our legal system Jay. I understand why you don’t want to think it won’t work but the reality staring us all in the face right now shows it won’t. I hope I’m wrong but, after being raised by the kind of people trump & musk are, and watching our government do atrocious things (including Biden), I have zero faith in our courts.
Plus, why would any of the magacult care what any court says? They are already disobeying the freeze order. They. Don’t. Care. Until they are physically hauled away and held legally accountable none of this will stop. Again, I hope I’m wrong.
Nancy- Get connected with your local Indivisible group or other grassroots action-oriented local group. This is how we keep ourselves sane while staying in the fight. We need you.
I hope you are right. I had, a few weeks ago, counted on the fact that Congress wrote the laws and controlled the money, but today that was proven wrong by the spineless republicans in congress. They seem to just sit back and watch it all happen like it’s an episode of Hunger Games that will soon end and they need more popcorn.
I don't understand how they can't see what is going on and realize if it continues then there will be no need for a Congress and they are all out jobs. They continue to bypass Congress without reprecussion, how long before they are all dismissed?
I said this weeks ago! When all the power moves to the executive branch, why keep congress or scotus around! Don’t these people see that they are weeks away from their own buyout?
This is so much worse than initially expected. They are moving so fast that the complete takeover of the government and in turn the installation of trump as a dictator could happen in a matter of a few weeks. We need the courts to take action and to more importantly, hold.
"If you are a software engineer, you know how dangerous the above described circumstances can be, and how they risk crashing the entire system." I am a software engineer and created this infographic to show the Musk crew hacking the U.S. Treasury systems.
How did a Saudi-funded South African immigrant seize the U.S. Treasury and steal your Social Security? Follow the money!
Unless the courts can reverse this takeover of our country by Elon Musk (given that it will end up in front of SCOTUS, a thin reed indeed), then the Constitution is no longer in effect and our democracy is dead and just doesn’t know it yet.
Oh, sure, the courts are all going to wag their fingers at the Muskrat and say, "No, No, Elon, you stop that." And Elon with immediately apologize for all the trouble he's caused and leave.
Once he has messed with the coding it won’t matter. He will have a back door in and remote control of everything.
Everything happening now is to draw attention away from what he and his lackeys are doing with the code! Read only was still bad…but Bessent gave him access to overwrite code!
Charges should be brought against Bessent for treason!
Can Musk little intern perpetrators be arrested and jailed? Scott Bessent’s convent to these crimes is illegal. They are defying the law. They could severely damaged our systems while a lawsuit meanders through the court system. The need to be physically removed and restrained.
Why does anyone think the judiciary will stop this? Many judges are MAGA and if by some chance they lose they will kick it to an illegitimate and corrupt SCOTUS. I would not rely on the courts to save us.
My first impulse is that, should they lose this fight, proving that our right to privacy no longer exists, I want to file a lawsuit to see all of trumps private financial information that he has claimed privacy rights to, on the supposition that he is holding public office and public trust, and he is an employee of the American people. We have a right to override his privacy if he has a right to override ours. And let’s not stop there. Musk has made himself an unelected administrative head of a government organization. That gives the people a right to his privacy as well. We expect to be shown just how much our taxes have paid to him for his contracts with the government. Fair is fair, right?
there is already tort claim action going on......can't remember the non profit that has filed, but it is happening. will try to get the information and post it.
I’ve been listening to Michael Popok (among others) on MTN. He often gives explanations about the different federal courts and the cases being filed. 31 as of last night.
Here’s a link to last nights podcast. It’s long, so poke around to see if you what you’re looking for. Or maybe add him to your podcast/youtube list.
One minor correction... Trump is NOT a would-be dictator. He is immune to prosecution. He has by fiat stacked the courts, all law enforcement and justice depts and has (apparently) handed the keys to the treasury to the unelected and unaccountable wingnut fascist nutjob Elon Musk.
His own party has already bowed their heads, hoping not to be noticed I assume. The Dems are now the minority in all branches of government. They should be counted on to fight back, but are hardly known for unity or willingness to get down in the mud with the liars and cheats.
Therefore, there is nobody to stop Trump. He and his henchmen are free to do what ever crazy shit they feel like. So he is, in fact, an actual dictator.
We are no longer a nation of laws and this cannot end well.
Folks, a gentle reminder.
When there are important court filings and victories, it does no one any good to chime in with, “Yeah, but too late” or “They won’t abide by the court order anyway.”
There are at least three big problems with this response.
First, you are capitulating in advance. The first rule in fighting authoritarianism is not to give an inch. Saying we will lose or that it doesn’t matter is contributing to this cynicism.
Second, they are actually counting on your cynicism to win. If the left believes it cannot win, then it will not win. Don’t give them that victory so easily. Fight the urge to give voice to your darkest fears. As I like to remind folks, “Would you walk up to a paramedic trying to save a life and say, ‘Just give up, they’re going to die anyway’?” No. Then please don’t say that to the lawyers and the acitivists who are on the front lines in the court battles against the fascists.
Third, there is no evidence that this administration wants to expend political capital defying court orders. That is a quick ticket to losing a lot more later, as it gives the judicary reason to come down even harder. The goal of the ‘flood the zone’ technique is not to defy the orders in the cases they lose but to throw enough crap around that someone gets nailed with it or they draw a sympathetic judge. And remember, even this Supreme Court has some limits on what it will do for Trump, and it absolutely cannot hear every case. Not even close.
So when I or others post wins, please amplify them, and check yourself if you’re inclined to pee in the Cheerios in the comments. If you’re feeling that way, remind yourself that this is EXACTLY what Trump and Musk want you to feel, then resist it with all you have.
As you were.
Jay! You are just absolutely awesome. Just a common citizen here, retired third grade school teacher paying close attention to stay on top of the latest developments… While I’m very capable of reading, I tend to listen these days as I take the information in differently and can read later, listening as I drive or sit eating a nutritious snack. All that to say… Your post today covers thoroughly the aspects of what’s happening, the dynamics, considerations, developments, and you’re just so so so clear. Even your pinned comment at the start of comments, cautioning people to stay away from naysayer territory…I’m sure I am one small voice among many feeling deep gratitude for your dedication, capability, clarity, and proactivity. Thank you for being here. Absolutely restacking and sharing because I don’t think there could be a more thorough clear report available.
I keep deflecting the term summary because that implies brevity, hitting just the high points. Your piece covers so much, and therefore is brief in some respects, per topic, and yet there’s so much. You handle it adeptly. Again, so grateful. Thank you.
And Public Citizen… My goodness, I’ve subscribed to them or been a member, whatever you call it, for years and years… Oh my goodness, I’m certainly getting in line to qualify as a groupie and definitely donating and paying attention to do whatever possible to support them. Injunction. Yes, just freeze the status quo and block access. Do no more damage than has already been accomplished. Very, very watchful for developments. Thank you again.
Kudos to Jay Kuo!! I couldn’t have said it better than Katherine, above, so I will leave it there…🙌
Thank you Catherine and Jay. You got this !!!
Here's my genius response: 100%!
Thank you,Jay,for your calm(ish) explanations.The fight is real. And you’re giving us hope🙏
Spot on! We're the cheerleaders! Fight on!
Thank you, Jay!!!!!!!!
Thank you for that comment, Jay, after all that you have added on today's edition.
I think that those who feel compelled to express in less-than language have not let go of the pain (as much as they may think they have) of the lost election. Any good news is
good and healthy for everyone to absorb and use. Thanks again for explaining so much here.
Thank you very much for your updates! I donated yesterday and will wait for the results.
I still have hope we can get our country back💙✌🏻
You calm me down and give me hope. I also loved your book about your Ma.
Yes we can stop him. My colleagues and I have set up traps for the muskrat and his minions. We are gathering evidence of their crimes that should lead to Elon in jail and Trump impeached! https://democracydefender2025.substack.com/p/no-one-elected-elon
Good for you, PS!
I don't understand why he cannot be physically removed by force.
You have to ask yourself who controls the military, who controls most of the police. I wish that Musk could be removed by force, but it’s not likely.
Sure. Pam Bondi's DoJ and Kash Patel's FBI are going to jump right in there and take him out. Or maybe Pete Hegseth's DoD.
Contact Gen. Miley, i think he could round a up well-armed militia in about 15 mins
I would join!
What about a bunch of grannies w/ broomsticks?
This is the *extremely* important part that Jay, extremely frustratingly, chose not to discuss.
He is, IMO, unwarranted in his faith in the justice system's ability to stop this coup. This is especially true now that Elon & Company will be emboldened by Speaker of the House Mike Johnson's statement that the dismantling of federal agencies without Congressional oversight is "a welcome development." Jay is right about one thing, this is DEFCON 1, but it involves people who are *far* more committed to their beliefs than we've ever seen, and their support extends beyond Trump.
Now that Elon has Speaker Johnson's support, IMO Trump's committed to this whether he likes it or not. He will be destroyed by the MAGA far right if he willingly backs down. If Trump backs down, I can definitely see Johnson using the moment to set himself up as a challenger in 2028.
Congress and the judiciary do not have the ability to physically enforce laws and court decisions. The U.S. Marshals are part of the Department of Justice, controlled by the Attorney General. The Marshal of the Supreme Court's duties have been reduced to custodian and administrator of the building and its grounds.
The U.S. military getting involved would be illegal for multiple reasons. Even if the uniformed leadership wanted to get their service involved, they legally can't. The President is the Commander in Chief. Trying to illegally get the military involved would likely lead to mass resignations and harm national security.
Lastly, IMO it's also important to note that thls is happening in the District of Columbia. DC isn't a state. Even if there are local laws that were broken, the investigation/prosecution of those crimes is up to the US Attorney for the District of Columbia, who is appointed by the President. There isn't a state DA like Letitia James around to stop this. The DC and/or Capitol Police aren't going to be able to stop this.
Well said and very depressing. This is going to get worse and worse and may not get better in our lifetimes – or ever. Our democracy is collapsing in front of our eyes and not enough people seem to care. Our laws and our constitution depend on the people’s support. Where is the universal outrage?
The universal outrage hasn't happened (and probably won't) because as long as it doesn't personally impact them, most Americans simply just don't care. The others agree with what's going on because they believe they're right, and are actually the majority.
This is why I wrote in response to another poster that the only way this coup is likely going to fail is if the experts simply get out of the way and let Musk and his minions fail. I respect their commitment to their jobs, but collaboration in an effort to prevent widescale damage is the *wrong* move.
When Trump's impoundment EO threatend their benefits his voters, they expressed their outrage and he (partially) backed down. The only way most Americans are going to care about this is when/if payments stop because Musk & Co are incompetent.
There's some precedent here. Musk got fired (while on his honeymoon) from his position as CEO of the company that became Paypal after his unilateral decision to move from Linux to Windows increased fraudulent transactions and cost the company money. All of the network engineers told him not to do it, and predicted what would occur. The company board didn't stop Musk until it cost them.
Same principle here. As long as the experts keep the USG and American people from Musk's ineptitude, everything looks "fine" even though it's not.
The ones who like what’s going on are not the majority, if you’re talking about the ones who voted for trump. I must insist on repeating this again and again. The largest group of voters in America are the non-voters. trump’s voters were NOT a majority of American citizens.
And by the time enough Americans care (even if for the wrong reasons) it may be too late.
If an individual or organization doesn't receive a social security or other type of disbursement, my question is whether or not a local district attorney can file criminal charges against the actors in question, be it Marko Elez and his helpers or Musk or anyone else involved. Is D.C. a participant in the states' extradition compact?
I don't know but I'm guessing this might be a matter for state AGs.
Chris, echoing Jay’s opening comment, this is not helpful. Peeing in the cheerios is an apt phrase. Instead of telling us we’re doomed, how about you tell us what you’re doing to further the resistance? My local Indivisible group will be at our Senators’ offices tomorrow giving them specific instructions about what we expect from them in this moment. How ‘bout you?
It’s the cowardly Republicans in Congress who could stop this but they’re all afraid of losing their jobs. We need more Adam Kinzinger’s , Liz Cheney’s and Elaine Lauria’s, politicians who put the Constitution before their political careers.
He could be. He’s a physical weakling with a pot belly. But no one has been willing to try and without any legal justification to hold him he’d be right back there.
Exactly
Citizens' arrest.
Citizen's arrest, are you actually serious?!?! This isn't Mayberry and we're not dealing with Barney Fife and Gomer Pyle. Elon Musk and his people most definitely have security. Any agency employee who attempted to execute a citizen's arrest would be laughed at, promptly pushed aside, put on administrative leave, and physically escorted out of the building.
The only way this all fails is if/when the technology collapses. I respect the federal employees commitment to their jobs, but it's the wrong decision in this instance. Elon and his minions need to be allowed to fail to the extent that payments stop and the country is financially harmed.
This isn't the first time Elon Musk's run roughshod over existing technolohical systems because he thinks he's the "smartest man in the room." Musk got fired as CEO of the company that eventually became Paypal because he, against all advice, moved from Linux to Windows. That stupidity increased fraudulent transactions and cost the company money.
I am a complete dunce when it comes to technology. So while all the details of what they’re doing at the treasury (and dept of Ed?) go over my head, I can understand when you say it fails when the technology crashes. Would even that give our Congress leaders new spines? If I don’t get my SS my life grinds to a halt. But theirs won’t.
I don’t understand promoting the idea of allowing millions of Americans to not receive their benefits such as SS, VA disability, ssdi etc on the 1st. Millions would be facing evictions and other scary situations. And if the computers failed and that happened how quickly would be fixed? Probably take a long time. Stopping him before that happens is better.
I completely understand the consequences, and of course I agree stopping him before that happens is the best option.
What I'm getting at is the core of the problem, which really isn't limited to Musk and what he's doing now. The core of the problem is Amercians, particularly Trump voters, don't appreciate federal employees because so much of what the federal government does simply "happens." They don't know, or particularly care, how "the sausage gets made" as long as they get their benefits, or their claims are processed on time, and we don't have another 9/11. A government shutdown doesn't widely impact Americans because Congress has changed the law over the years to ensure the mail's delivered, SS and Medicare benefits are processed, the uniformed military, and many DOD civilians, are on duty despite not getting paid, etc. The majority of the effects of a shutdown are limited to federal employees, contractors, new Medicare/Medicaid/SS beneficiaries or, for example, someone applying for a new passport.
Furthermore, look at the one time Trump's (partially) had to back down already. He backed down on his impoundment EO because it was *his* voters who got scared they weren't going to get their SNAP and other benefits. They contacted their Republican governors and Congressional representatitives, who contacted the White House and forced Trump's staff to re-write that EO.
According to a January 2025 Pew Research report, the only federal agencies more than 50% of Americans view favorably are the National Park Service (+69%), NASA (+55%) and USPS (+51%). Every other agency, and by extension, the employees who work there, are viewed negatively by a majority of Americans.
Trump has (illegally) given Musk and his merry band of lickspittles permission to access computer systems. Musk, as usual, thinks he's the smartest person in the room and doesn't know what he doesn't know. It's the federal employees who are fully trained on these systems who understand the potential impact of the changes being made, and are assisting in an effort to make sure the entire system doesn't crash. If it doesn't crash, to the average voter the whole mess is going to look "overblown" and hardly anybody, least of all Trump, his voters, and Musk, are going to credit the federal employees who stayed and did their jobs despite being horribly treated.
If we can.
As of 2020, 51% of the 535 members of Congress were millionaires. I couldn't find reliable data newer than that, but the percentage is probably similar. You are correct, a majority of them wouldn't miss a SS check at all. But that would be true even if they *weren't* in Congress.
Here's what matters to them: Votes and public opinion in their state or district. Most of them really do want to keep their jobs, sometimes even because they like helping their constiuents! (Most of those are Democrats, of course.)
The Trump White House was forced to partially back down on that impoundment EO because *his* voters got outraged. SNAP and other government benefits they rely on were potentially going to be temporarily cut off. On social media they collectively lost their minds, and contacted their Republican governors and Congressional representatives. Those governors and Congressional representatives called the White House and forced them to re-write that EO. The voters mattered!
I completely understand the immediate economic carnage the collapse of any of the multiple Treasury payment systems would cause. Unfortunately, I simply don't see another way to teach a large number of Americans (Trump voters) a lesson they *need* to learn without harming innocent people. Part of the reason we're in this mess is Democrats have shied away from a "nuclear option" on *any* issue for over a decade. Now we're basically at DEFCON 1 for our republic, and we're not necessarily winning. Even if Trump/Musk are legally defeated on this, IMO the core problem doesn't go away. The core problem being a large number of Americans simply believe their benefits happen by "magic" and don't appreciate the fact it takes people to get them those benefits.
Exactly
I am absolutely serious. We have the right and some people are very courageous.
Then you clearly either don't understand how citizen's arrests work, or who actually physically has power inside a federal building. There is absolutely no way to execute a citizen's arrest in this instance.
Furthermore, should Elon & Co ignore an injuction, that's a *federal* crime.
The US Marshals are controlled by the Attorney General. They wouldn't even bother to respond to a citizen's arrest.
Even if local laws have been broken, prosecutions and criminal investigations in DC are conducted by the US Attorney for the District of Columbia, who is appointed by the President.
You are simply not being anywhere close to realistic.
Then neither were Rosa Parks, MLK, Gandhi, Mandela, the guy who stood in front of the tanks at Tiananmen Square, etc. Do not obey in advance. The symbolism of such a move would be priceless.
You have twisted my words.
In *absolutely no way* did I say or suggest "obey in advance." In fact, I specifically stated the opposte. Federal employees, and I am one, should *not* obey illegal orders. Following an illegal order is actually a felony. They should not even assist Musk and his employees in their illegal actions.
What I did is dispute your assertion that a citizen's arrest can be used to stop Musk and his employees illegal actions. Upon further research, I've since learned that federal law does not even include the concept of a citizen's arrest. These are federal crimes being cmmitted on federal property. Local DC law does not apply.
Depending on how far the employee went in trying to make an illegal citizen's arrest, they could face charges themselves. Your advice would absolutely make somebody's life *much* worse, and do absolutely nothing to stop Musk or his employees.
What's with the hostility? That's tech bro stuff.
Thank you, Charles.
Me too!
Hitler was eventually stopped. Yes, musk can be stopped. I just hope it doesn't take a world war to make it happen.
And never forget who is at the top of this simp hierarchy: putin
the rest are just his tr45h bagmen simp incel dogebros
It's the "eventually" part that worries me. 50 million people died before Hitler was stopped. Putin has been in power 25 years. Stalin and Pinochet died peacefully in comfy beds - not in prisons. So... it would be kind of nice if THESE goons were stopped sooner rather than later.
But, how? tRump will keep them busy at overthrowing the Government until he gets too much heat and then he can and will pardon them. There is so much we need to do if we ever get a chance to fix the Constitution.
you are doing it right now. by promoting the truth about elon and putin's tr45h by reposting and flooding the zone. we must take back our online platforms by subverting the kremlin algorithms whenever possible. bandwidth costs money and the kremlin is running out.
Good for Public Citizen! I fully support their action. However, one additional action would likely have great impact--they should name as defendants the actual engineers who are doing the illegal work, and they should seek damages on behalf of the Government for the costs incurred by the illegal takeover. While Musk might be able to pay the damages, I doubt the engineers would (unless Musk indemnifies them). And there's a good chance those damage claims would not be dischargeable in bankruptcy.
It might get complicated to do that, and there may be other suits that do that now that their identities are known.
I concur. Let’s send a message that if you aid, abet, or are in any way complicit in Musk’s actions, you will pay for your crimes against the American people, permanently.
Folks, a gentle reminder.
When there are important court filings and victories, it does no one any good to chime in with, “Yeah, but too late” or “They won’t abide by the court order anyway.”
There are at least three big problems with this response.
First, you are capitulating in advance. The first rule in fighting authoritarianism is not to give an inch. Saying we will lose or that it doesn’t matter is contributing to this cynicism.
Second, they are actually counting on your cynicism to win. If the left believes it cannot win, then it will not win. Don’t give them that victory so easily. Fight the urge to give voice to your darkest fears. As I like to remind folks, “Would you walk up to a paramedic trying to save a life and say, ‘Just give up, they’re going to die anyway’?” No. Then please don’t say that to the lawyers and the acitivists who are on the front lines in the court battles against the fascists.
Third, there is no evidence that this administration wants to expend political capital defying court orders. That is a quick ticket to losing a lot more later, as it gives the judicary reason to come down even harder. The goal of the ‘flood the zone’ technique is not to defy the orders in the cases they lose but to throw enough crap around that someone gets nailed with it or they draw a sympathetic judge. And remember, even this Supreme Court has some limits on what it will do for Trump, and it absolutely cannot hear every case. Not even close.
So when I or others post wins, please amplify them, and check yourself if you’re inclined to pee in the Cheerios in the comments. If you’re feeling that way, remind yourself that this is EXACTLY what Trump and Musk want you to feel, then resist it with all you have.
As you were.
Even if a judge finds it illegal who is going to stop it? Who will remove musk and his frat buddies? Who will make sure they didn’t plant code to blow it all up if they aren’t there to stop the event?
Bessent…nope. He let them in
Any of the other confirmations? Nope, they all kiss the ring!
Today democrats in the oversight committee stated they wanted muck to apps for questioning and Comer shut them down stating they were out of order!
There may be law…but there is no one enforcing it!
I imagine it would be very difficult for a guy like Scott Bessent to disobey a court order and risk personal liability, all to protect Musk who has overstepped.
You have far too much faith in our legal system Jay. I understand why you don’t want to think it won’t work but the reality staring us all in the face right now shows it won’t. I hope I’m wrong but, after being raised by the kind of people trump & musk are, and watching our government do atrocious things (including Biden), I have zero faith in our courts.
Plus, why would any of the magacult care what any court says? They are already disobeying the freeze order. They. Don’t. Care. Until they are physically hauled away and held legally accountable none of this will stop. Again, I hope I’m wrong.
Please read Jay's intro to the comments section.
💯🎯✌🏻💙
I want to trust and believe but each day I feel more beaten down than the day before.
Nancy- Get connected with your local Indivisible group or other grassroots action-oriented local group. This is how we keep ourselves sane while staying in the fight. We need you.
I hope there are backups that are safe and inaccessible to them. Considering the importance of the system I suspect there are many.
I hope you are right. I had, a few weeks ago, counted on the fact that Congress wrote the laws and controlled the money, but today that was proven wrong by the spineless republicans in congress. They seem to just sit back and watch it all happen like it’s an episode of Hunger Games that will soon end and they need more popcorn.
I don't understand how they can't see what is going on and realize if it continues then there will be no need for a Congress and they are all out jobs. They continue to bypass Congress without reprecussion, how long before they are all dismissed?
I said this weeks ago! When all the power moves to the executive branch, why keep congress or scotus around! Don’t these people see that they are weeks away from their own buyout?
Or prison cell.
This is so much worse than initially expected. They are moving so fast that the complete takeover of the government and in turn the installation of trump as a dictator could happen in a matter of a few weeks. We need the courts to take action and to more importantly, hold.
"If you are a software engineer, you know how dangerous the above described circumstances can be, and how they risk crashing the entire system." I am a software engineer and created this infographic to show the Musk crew hacking the U.S. Treasury systems.
How did a Saudi-funded South African immigrant seize the U.S. Treasury and steal your Social Security? Follow the money!
https://thedemlabs.org/2025/02/04/how-did-a-saudi-funded-south-african-immigrant-seize-the-u-s-treasury-and-steal-your-social-security-follow-the-money/
Unless the courts can reverse this takeover of our country by Elon Musk (given that it will end up in front of SCOTUS, a thin reed indeed), then the Constitution is no longer in effect and our democracy is dead and just doesn’t know it yet.
Oh, sure, the courts are all going to wag their fingers at the Muskrat and say, "No, No, Elon, you stop that." And Elon with immediately apologize for all the trouble he's caused and leave.
Once he has messed with the coding it won’t matter. He will have a back door in and remote control of everything.
Everything happening now is to draw attention away from what he and his lackeys are doing with the code! Read only was still bad…but Bessent gave him access to overwrite code!
Charges should be brought against Bessent for treason!
Once again, thanks Mitch McConnell……
Truth! But for Mitch, Trump would not have been able to run for a second term.
thank you Jay - and thank you for the link to support Publix Citizen!
Hungry, are ya? "
;-)
Thanks for that update Jay, I really needed to hear it! Judd Legum has a new site called musk watch; I encourage everyone to check it out.
https://www.muskwatch.com/
Can Musk little intern perpetrators be arrested and jailed? Scott Bessent’s convent to these crimes is illegal. They are defying the law. They could severely damaged our systems while a lawsuit meanders through the court system. The need to be physically removed and restrained.
By whom? Tr controls all agencies.
Why does anyone think the judiciary will stop this? Many judges are MAGA and if by some chance they lose they will kick it to an illegitimate and corrupt SCOTUS. I would not rely on the courts to save us.
Sure, there are some MAGA judges, but very few in the D.C. Circuit where the action is.
My first impulse is that, should they lose this fight, proving that our right to privacy no longer exists, I want to file a lawsuit to see all of trumps private financial information that he has claimed privacy rights to, on the supposition that he is holding public office and public trust, and he is an employee of the American people. We have a right to override his privacy if he has a right to override ours. And let’s not stop there. Musk has made himself an unelected administrative head of a government organization. That gives the people a right to his privacy as well. We expect to be shown just how much our taxes have paid to him for his contracts with the government. Fair is fair, right?
there is already tort claim action going on......can't remember the non profit that has filed, but it is happening. will try to get the information and post it.
https://youtu.be/u-86053iVNk?si=XnhRvKLte9l7SRg1
I’ve been listening to Michael Popok (among others) on MTN. He often gives explanations about the different federal courts and the cases being filed. 31 as of last night.
Here’s a link to last nights podcast. It’s long, so poke around to see if you what you’re looking for. Or maybe add him to your podcast/youtube list.
He’s talked me off the ledge more than once. https://www.youtube.com/live/L4TYxs-SdLA?si=BmaVYrz9Q-q9zFl3
Maybe Judge Chutkan will get the case. Hoping.
The lower courts may do the right thing. But they will take it to the captured SCOTUS and that is that.
One minor correction... Trump is NOT a would-be dictator. He is immune to prosecution. He has by fiat stacked the courts, all law enforcement and justice depts and has (apparently) handed the keys to the treasury to the unelected and unaccountable wingnut fascist nutjob Elon Musk.
His own party has already bowed their heads, hoping not to be noticed I assume. The Dems are now the minority in all branches of government. They should be counted on to fight back, but are hardly known for unity or willingness to get down in the mud with the liars and cheats.
Therefore, there is nobody to stop Trump. He and his henchmen are free to do what ever crazy shit they feel like. So he is, in fact, an actual dictator.
We are no longer a nation of laws and this cannot end well.