Thank you for this phenomenal lesson in the law in Georgia. Not only is the RICO process fascinating, you made it clearly understandable. A tour de force! I am hoping Fani Willis does us all proud with her unflinching regard for the Constitution, the rule of law and our foundational rights as voters.
This is a terrific piece of analysis and explanation, Jay. Violating Georgia's RICO statute appears to be Trump's most likely ticket to at least 20 months in prison. I LOVE the fact that a draconian statute designed to entrap Black defendants, could be the vehicle for putting Trump away--with the law enforcement professional being a tough, black female prosecutor.
Excellent presentation. My only quibble, and it's a small thing, is the regular use of the words "overturn the election" when describing what Trump and his minions were attempting to do. Nearly all news outlets say that.
Biden had already won the election. This had been made clear; time after time, state after state.
Trump wanted to take the election from the actual proven winner.
I actually prefer overturn. The right uses “steal” in its messaging, with an exprés intent to inflame passions and stoke violence. I prefer using “overturn” because it does the opposite—invites us to look at process, the rule of law, and precedent. Maybe I’m just a boring lawyer that way!
I feel that sometimes it is appropriate to appropriate the language that the right uses and turn it against them. They stole the election against Gore with their trumped up hanging chads case, and now they tried to trump up a fake stolen election, and I think the word stolen should be used where it really belongs. I would accept committed treasonous acts instead of STEAL though.
Seth Abramson posted one of his exhaustively detailed Substacks the other day where he laid out the entire history of the Trumpist plot to overturn the election just in case their man didn’t win. It began with a memo by John Eastman based on work by one of his Claremont associates whose name I forget. In this memo Eastman outlined a dastardly and imaginary plot by Democrats to steal the election from Trump. When Eastman was brought onto the team, it was with the idea that Team Trump would beat the Democrats to the punch using the same tactics they imagined the Democrats would use.
Whether they intended to steal the election or to overturn it after the fact is a matter for debate.
The wonderful irony of an African American woman taking down this disgusting white racist, using legislation meant to harm black people funneled into our incarceration system is somehow liberating. I truly hope at some point tRump will feel the force of his own racism turned on its head.
Phew, what a comprehensive summary of tRump's troubles in GA, and the complexities of the RICO statutes. Well done on all fronts! As an aside, has anyone ever successfully appealed to overturn a RICO conviction in GA?
Thank you for making it so very clear so we can understand what the case in Georgia might bring. I love the fact that the Georgia RICO laws were aimed at blacks and now we might see it actually apply to whites. 🤞🙏🤞
It does not serve them to reform their party or their behavior. They are addicted to their own noise and cannot escape the debilitating cacophony that is to come.
Trump has already been calling Willis a racist. I believe she has a lot of security in place now because of it. It again reminds me of what is quickly becoming a common assumption about Trump and his allies: Every accusation is a confession.
I'm in the same situation, and the thing I do to make up for it (to whatever extent that I can) is share Jay's posts widely. I'm on facebook, and besides my own page I'm also in a few liberal groups who love to see Jay's posts. A few have subscribed due to this, which pleases me no end.
Jay, what is Willis' track record for locking up RICO defendants while awaiting trial? Is that a possibility here and if so, how likely is it in your opinion?
And thanks very much for the succinct breakdown. The next few days will be epic.
This is a bit of apples to oranges. In the case where RICO involves violent street crime, there is a much stronger case to be made that the defendant is a threat to the community. That’s harder in the case of white collar crime, though perhaps it should not be. I don’t think that she will seek pre-trial detention here, given that these are non-violent crimes. But Trump and others could be subject to pre-trial conditions to avoid being held. Should they violate those, a judge would have broad discretion to hold them.
Too bad stochastic terrorism isn't a factor in whether he should be locked up, considering his accusations about her and other prosecutors and judges. I know she's had to increase her security and her staff's and I imagine Smith and others have, too. I guess it skates too close to the line of freedom of speech, even though we know his 'speech' triggered the attack on the Capitol and could again trigger others, like that guy that was recently killed in Utah during an attempted arrest after he threatened Biden.
Trump has created a whole new category of collar color crime, based on spreading all consuming hate among our beloved citizens- our countrymen- and placing a wedge between them. It’s Red Collar Crime. (not stooping to the O word).
I'm waiting and hoping for the state to ask for pre-trial detention. The defense will bluster about how he's a very busy man. The judge will shrug, that's not my problem. "The defendant is to be held in custody pending trial. Deputies will take charge of the defendant."
When that ruling occurs do you think Georgia needs to have an extradition treaty with Alabama or whichever other MAGA state that “Diaper Don” flees to?
Those decisions are made on the spot - he would have no opportunity to flee. And that cat would very definitely not want to hang out in Alabama. And states do not have extradition "treaties" - all there would be is a show-cause hearing.
Wonderful explainer, Thank you Jay! Curious about interstate activities and how they might tie in. For example, Colorado also had voting machine data retrieved after the election, allegedly by illegal means and dissemination occurred in a different State. Last I saw Tina Peters trial was delayed (again) and I wonder if this "like" act could be added to whirlpool?
The RICO law would give Willis jurisdiction over acts that occur outside of her county, including in other states. It will be interesting to see what acts she includes.
It is great that DA Fani Willis is another clever litigator like Jack Smith. I figured that these RICO Laws in Georgia were meant to hold Black people in prison. My understanding is also that if convicted, Trump could not pardon himself from doing time as president because it would not be under his jurisdiction to pardon state crimes.
“an African American District Attorney could soon use the very same draconian laws upon one of the very symbols of white supremacy: the former president himself.”
I just love it when authoritarian assholes find out that swords cut both ways. It’s something we really should make sure we show them more often.
Trump and his crime syndicate are predictable and follow the same dogma. They cannot and will not deviate from it. It certainly helps that Georgia Sec. of State Brad Raffensperger recorded the call that Trump made. You could make the case that it was that call that really got the proverbial ball rolling on the Georgia case.
So to my question:
Is there any way that a prosecutor from any one of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada, Arizona and apparently New Mexico could make a similar case — if not RICO, election interference?
I find it impossible to believe these crimes were only committed in Georgia. While Michigan AG Dana Nessel has brought charges against the fake electors from her state, what about other crimes that link back to this very scheme. This crew of quite dumb lawyers — in Powell, Rudy, and others — they are not the brightest bulbs; yet they had to know flipping Georgia alone with their scheme would not be enough.
We have the case on the fake electors in Michigan, but were there not fake electors from Wisconsin? Didn't Trump host Pennsylvania and Michigan state legislators at the White House to arm-twist them to flipping the results of their states? Was it not reported that he also tried to pressure Arizona republican statehouse leadership?
I find it remarkable that no one from those states has come forward to say something to the effect of "I received a similar phone call from Trump and his surrogates trying to pressure me to do something illegal..."
Dear Professor Jay,
Thank you for this phenomenal lesson in the law in Georgia. Not only is the RICO process fascinating, you made it clearly understandable. A tour de force! I am hoping Fani Willis does us all proud with her unflinching regard for the Constitution, the rule of law and our foundational rights as voters.
Sheila, I concur. I couldn’t digest this until this afternoon and all I can say is, where were we before Jays writing!? 👏👏👏👏👏. I learn so much.
This is a terrific piece of analysis and explanation, Jay. Violating Georgia's RICO statute appears to be Trump's most likely ticket to at least 20 months in prison. I LOVE the fact that a draconian statute designed to entrap Black defendants, could be the vehicle for putting Trump away--with the law enforcement professional being a tough, black female prosecutor.
Excellent presentation. My only quibble, and it's a small thing, is the regular use of the words "overturn the election" when describing what Trump and his minions were attempting to do. Nearly all news outlets say that.
Biden had already won the election. This had been made clear; time after time, state after state.
Trump wanted to take the election from the actual proven winner.
So, the word we are missing here is STEAL.
Trump was attempting to STEAL the election.
I actually prefer overturn. The right uses “steal” in its messaging, with an exprés intent to inflame passions and stoke violence. I prefer using “overturn” because it does the opposite—invites us to look at process, the rule of law, and precedent. Maybe I’m just a boring lawyer that way!
I feel that sometimes it is appropriate to appropriate the language that the right uses and turn it against them. They stole the election against Gore with their trumped up hanging chads case, and now they tried to trump up a fake stolen election, and I think the word stolen should be used where it really belongs. I would accept committed treasonous acts instead of STEAL though.
Seth Abramson posted one of his exhaustively detailed Substacks the other day where he laid out the entire history of the Trumpist plot to overturn the election just in case their man didn’t win. It began with a memo by John Eastman based on work by one of his Claremont associates whose name I forget. In this memo Eastman outlined a dastardly and imaginary plot by Democrats to steal the election from Trump. When Eastman was brought onto the team, it was with the idea that Team Trump would beat the Democrats to the punch using the same tactics they imagined the Democrats would use.
Whether they intended to steal the election or to overturn it after the fact is a matter for debate.
The wonderful irony of an African American woman taking down this disgusting white racist, using legislation meant to harm black people funneled into our incarceration system is somehow liberating. I truly hope at some point tRump will feel the force of his own racism turned on its head.
Phew, what a comprehensive summary of tRump's troubles in GA, and the complexities of the RICO statutes. Well done on all fronts! As an aside, has anyone ever successfully appealed to overturn a RICO conviction in GA?
That’s a question beyond my pay grade!
Excellent essay, Jay! Clear and concise, while also providing necessary details. Kudos! You are a national treasure!
Thank you for making it so very clear so we can understand what the case in Georgia might bring. I love the fact that the Georgia RICO laws were aimed at blacks and now we might see it actually apply to whites. 🤞🙏🤞
Indictment Week has enjoyed encore after encore, whilst Infrastructure week has yet to tie its golf spikes...
As soon as an indictment comes, right-wing radicals wont bother to read it. They will condemn the prosecutor and make a lot of noise.
Instead, they could do this: promise to clean up their act, tell the truth and respect the rule of law.
Why won't they do that?
It does not serve them to reform their party or their behavior. They are addicted to their own noise and cannot escape the debilitating cacophony that is to come.
Of course they can escape it. They have a choice here.
And they better do some hard thinking: if their entire platform in 24 is defending an indicted nominee, they will get wiped out. And deserve to.
Trump has already been calling Willis a racist. I believe she has a lot of security in place now because of it. It again reminds me of what is quickly becoming a common assumption about Trump and his allies: Every accusation is a confession.
No question. Every accusation is an admission.
They’re not their own brains. They’re rented.
I like to remind people (some people) to USE YOUR OWN BRAIN !
Thank you for all you do. Sorry I can't afford to pay, but I read you every day.
Not a problem at all. You can help out by sharing this to your networks! I want as many people to be informed and assured by my work as possible!
I'm in the same situation, and the thing I do to make up for it (to whatever extent that I can) is share Jay's posts widely. I'm on facebook, and besides my own page I'm also in a few liberal groups who love to see Jay's posts. A few have subscribed due to this, which pleases me no end.
Thank you for this explanation. Extraordinarily helpful. Fingers crossed.
Jay, what is Willis' track record for locking up RICO defendants while awaiting trial? Is that a possibility here and if so, how likely is it in your opinion?
And thanks very much for the succinct breakdown. The next few days will be epic.
This is a bit of apples to oranges. In the case where RICO involves violent street crime, there is a much stronger case to be made that the defendant is a threat to the community. That’s harder in the case of white collar crime, though perhaps it should not be. I don’t think that she will seek pre-trial detention here, given that these are non-violent crimes. But Trump and others could be subject to pre-trial conditions to avoid being held. Should they violate those, a judge would have broad discretion to hold them.
Too bad stochastic terrorism isn't a factor in whether he should be locked up, considering his accusations about her and other prosecutors and judges. I know she's had to increase her security and her staff's and I imagine Smith and others have, too. I guess it skates too close to the line of freedom of speech, even though we know his 'speech' triggered the attack on the Capitol and could again trigger others, like that guy that was recently killed in Utah during an attempted arrest after he threatened Biden.
...and the Cincinnati attempted FBI break in. And and and and.
Trump has created a whole new category of collar color crime, based on spreading all consuming hate among our beloved citizens- our countrymen- and placing a wedge between them. It’s Red Collar Crime. (not stooping to the O word).
I'm waiting and hoping for the state to ask for pre-trial detention. The defense will bluster about how he's a very busy man. The judge will shrug, that's not my problem. "The defendant is to be held in custody pending trial. Deputies will take charge of the defendant."
When that ruling occurs do you think Georgia needs to have an extradition treaty with Alabama or whichever other MAGA state that “Diaper Don” flees to?
Those decisions are made on the spot - he would have no opportunity to flee. And that cat would very definitely not want to hang out in Alabama. And states do not have extradition "treaties" - all there would be is a show-cause hearing.
Wonderful explainer, Thank you Jay! Curious about interstate activities and how they might tie in. For example, Colorado also had voting machine data retrieved after the election, allegedly by illegal means and dissemination occurred in a different State. Last I saw Tina Peters trial was delayed (again) and I wonder if this "like" act could be added to whirlpool?
The RICO law would give Willis jurisdiction over acts that occur outside of her county, including in other states. It will be interesting to see what acts she includes.
It is great that DA Fani Willis is another clever litigator like Jack Smith. I figured that these RICO Laws in Georgia were meant to hold Black people in prison. My understanding is also that if convicted, Trump could not pardon himself from doing time as president because it would not be under his jurisdiction to pardon state crimes.
Absolutely correct!
“an African American District Attorney could soon use the very same draconian laws upon one of the very symbols of white supremacy: the former president himself.”
I just love it when authoritarian assholes find out that swords cut both ways. It’s something we really should make sure we show them more often.
Excellent piece. Broad question for the lawyers:
Trump and his crime syndicate are predictable and follow the same dogma. They cannot and will not deviate from it. It certainly helps that Georgia Sec. of State Brad Raffensperger recorded the call that Trump made. You could make the case that it was that call that really got the proverbial ball rolling on the Georgia case.
So to my question:
Is there any way that a prosecutor from any one of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada, Arizona and apparently New Mexico could make a similar case — if not RICO, election interference?
I find it impossible to believe these crimes were only committed in Georgia. While Michigan AG Dana Nessel has brought charges against the fake electors from her state, what about other crimes that link back to this very scheme. This crew of quite dumb lawyers — in Powell, Rudy, and others — they are not the brightest bulbs; yet they had to know flipping Georgia alone with their scheme would not be enough.
We have the case on the fake electors in Michigan, but were there not fake electors from Wisconsin? Didn't Trump host Pennsylvania and Michigan state legislators at the White House to arm-twist them to flipping the results of their states? Was it not reported that he also tried to pressure Arizona republican statehouse leadership?
I find it remarkable that no one from those states has come forward to say something to the effect of "I received a similar phone call from Trump and his surrogates trying to pressure me to do something illegal..."
Any legal insight?