So, here we are again. Late Monday night, District Attorney Fani Willis delivered the last, at least for the time being, of any major criminal indictments against Trump that might go to trial before next year’s presidential election. The Georgia grand jury’s
One correction. The RICO statute does allow for monetary penalties in lieu of prison time. I can’t see that happening here with Trump, but just wanted to point out that there’s a small loophole in it.
Why did Fani tell a reporter that if convicted it would not be probation cases but they would have to serve some time? I don't think they should get away with no jail time.
Jay, I can't thank you enough for the care you put into writing these pieces. It is beyond helpful to have you explain these things in a way that is easily understandable for someone who doesn't have any legal background. Thank you very much!
Georgia resident here - I want the fake electors, the Coffee County people, and the election worker harassers in jail. Trump...jail works, but if he suddenly up and disappeared to Siberia never to be seen or heard from again, I’m ok with that, too.
"Club Guantanamo"...private rooms, plenty of sunshine, ocean view, one hour per day of outdoor recreation"...complements of the US Government. Some might consider that an upgrade on their usual holiday.
“For nearly three years now, anyone with evidence of fraud has failed to come forward — under oath — and prove anything in a court of law,” Georgia Governor Kemp
Follow the link...there's a tRump SM reply attached where he claims that next Monday, at Bedminster, he will have a presser featuring a "LARGE, complex, detailed, but irrefutable REPORT on the Presidential Elect Fraud in Georgia..." yadda-yadda.
Fabulous! He's still at it! "Irrefutable REPORT"...LOL! IF it happens, can't wait!
Well if any body wants to join him there , maybe a good time to dig up Ivanka's grave and see if anything like , I don't know, secret documents are buried with her ashes , like to keep her company in the afterlife ! Just saying !!
The real question about which we may rightfully ponder is whether Trump will manage to steer clear of Judge Chutkan's pre-trial detention; he seems fairly determined to test her patience.
I don't know how you read through all these documents and maintain your faith in humanity, Jay. Big kudos! I am just thinking - if Trump got 1 year of prison for each of his 91 charges, that would be just fine.
Joyce Vance did a thorough dissection of the process of "removal" of a criminal case from state to federal jurisdiction, and it's a heavy lift. As Jay mentioned the argument centers upon "official duties of a US federal officer", and "coloration of office", arguments which failed in the NY "hush money" case, but absolutely will be attempted in Atlanta again. He'll probably lose, but why pass up a sure delay-delay-delay opportunity?
Also, tRump went on his SM site last night to explicitly warn former GA Lt Gov. Geoff Duncan NOT to testify before the Fulton Cty grand jury...can't keep his gob shut, overt witness intimidation, more of his "You going for me? I'm coming for you"! thuggery. He just doesn't give a toss because he knows judges won't jail his sorry arse regardless of previous warnings. Let's see if this latest transgression is brought to the attention of Judge Shutkan, even though this particular witness may not be part of the DC Jan6 indictment.
Ankle bracelet, confinement to Mar a Lago in the heat & humidity of summer, electronic 'fencing' to restrict where he would be allowed on the property (no golf).
Thank you for the breakdown. I tried reading the indictment this morning and it made my head spin. I'm not as gleeful as I thought I'd be, for a couple of reasons. First, he already has 3 indictments and that hasn't changed anything. He's still threatening people on social media and holding his ridiculous rallies. Second, I was hoping for members of Congress to be named. Mostly Lindsey and Marge. It infuriates me that over 140 members of Congress, after the insurrection, voted no on certifying the election. That most of those people are still in Congress, doing everything they can to still destroy us, from the inside, sends me right over the edge. If trump becomes President and Republicans remain in charge of the House and heaven forbid, the Senate, our country is done. We must vote in every election at every level. Most of the bad behavior is started in state government and even local school boards. We need to stop that. Democrats need to get laser focused on messaging and not let the media lead the story into bullshit. Of course, our media needs to become much better. No more letting Republican lies go without pushback. No more normalizing any of this. We are in entirely new waters and we all must rise to the occasion to save our country.
Yes, the infamous Epshteyn...wonder if Boris Epshteyn is amongst the thirty "unindicted co-conspirators" in the GA case, as exhaustive work done by NYT reporters and the Jan6 Committee put him well into a co-ordinating mode in Nov/Dec 2020 involving the "fake electors" scheme, amongst other chicanery. His prints are all over hundreds of email exchanges with several indicted principals in both the GA and DC indictments, and it would seem that either Fani Willis or Jack Smith had ample evidence to rope Epshteyn in any of the multiple charges visited upon others in the WH circle.
The only reason that I can imagine for not indicting him is that he talked, and talked he did, dropping loads of people into the mire, and handing over the receipts.
I still haven’t seen anything that looks like she actually committed crimes. I know that isn’t a popular position, but I have to look at the evidence fairly and I just don’t see it.
Hoping that bail actually has to be posted for any and all indicted, and that it is bigly, like no one has ever seen before! He created more jobs, since leaving office than he did when installed, disproportionately attorney for attorney. 😎
Like Ginni Thomas, what Lindsey Graham did is probably not illegal in my view, though it was questionable. It’s likely protected under Speech & Debate protection, or at least partially.
Also claimed to be an "interested party" in his rôle as a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee...but I think we all know he was down there in GA carrying tRump's water for him.
From what I understood from folks on MSNBC tonite is that the Georgia RICO law doesn’t necessarily require all members of the criminal enterprise to have committed individual crimes. Being part of the enterprise that commits the larger crime can be enough to indict? It’s humongous, as it is though. Impossible to include everyone that was part of it and still expect results in this decade
"There were some surprises on the list, too. The two biggest were Mark Meadows, who was Trump’s former chief of staff, and Jenna Ellis, who worked with Rudy Giuliani and helped spread election lies. Their inclusion implies that neither is cooperating with prosecutors in Georgia, even though it is widely suspected that they may be cooperating with Jack Smith’s office in D.C. I presume neither Meadows nor Ellis wants to get swept up in the RICO whirlpool in Georgia, but both are now charged with one very dangerous RICO count. And both have to be careful that what they might say to a jury in D.C. doesn’t land them in big trouble down in Georgia."
Does that limit what these two witnesses will be willing to say to a jury in D.C.? (does it weaken the federal prosecution?) Why would they cooperate in D.C. & not in Georgia? Or, are people expecting they will quickly start cooperating with prosecutors in Georgia?
IF Meadows cops a plea in exchange for testimony against other defendants in the GA indictment, can that plea/testimony be used by Jack Smith AGAINST Meadows in a later indictment in federal court? Or is there a possible "double jeopardy" issue here?
One correction. The RICO statute does allow for monetary penalties in lieu of prison time. I can’t see that happening here with Trump, but just wanted to point out that there’s a small loophole in it.
Why did Fani tell a reporter that if convicted it would not be probation cases but they would have to serve some time? I don't think they should get away with no jail time.
Jay, I can't thank you enough for the care you put into writing these pieces. It is beyond helpful to have you explain these things in a way that is easily understandable for someone who doesn't have any legal background. Thank you very much!
Agree 💯
Couldn’t agree more. It’s excellent!
Georgia resident here - I want the fake electors, the Coffee County people, and the election worker harassers in jail. Trump...jail works, but if he suddenly up and disappeared to Siberia never to be seen or heard from again, I’m ok with that, too.
I'm thinking we have a perfectly good, military defended, isolated prison at Guantanamo Bay...sounds perfect, to me.
Perhaps DuhSantis can visit him there and laugh at him.
"Club Guantanamo"...private rooms, plenty of sunshine, ocean view, one hour per day of outdoor recreation"...complements of the US Government. Some might consider that an upgrade on their usual holiday.
Ah, but no internet service. That would be pure h*ll for him!
EXACTLY ! Punishment has a particular definition for everyone.
Probably has room for a putting green where he can exercise one hour per day.
With climate change, Siberia might end up being pretty hot.
Not to mention the ground melting underneath his feet.
“For nearly three years now, anyone with evidence of fraud has failed to come forward — under oath — and prove anything in a court of law,” Georgia Governor Kemp
Yes , I wonder who Kemp is loyal too !!
https://twitter.com/BrianKempGA/status/1691483026356678660?s=20
Follow the link...there's a tRump SM reply attached where he claims that next Monday, at Bedminster, he will have a presser featuring a "LARGE, complex, detailed, but irrefutable REPORT on the Presidential Elect Fraud in Georgia..." yadda-yadda.
Fabulous! He's still at it! "Irrefutable REPORT"...LOL! IF it happens, can't wait!
Well if any body wants to join him there , maybe a good time to dig up Ivanka's grave and see if anything like , I don't know, secret documents are buried with her ashes , like to keep her company in the afterlife ! Just saying !!
The real question about which we may rightfully ponder is whether Trump will manage to steer clear of Judge Chutkan's pre-trial detention; he seems fairly determined to test her patience.
Indictment #4 is a showstopper.
I don't know how you read through all these documents and maintain your faith in humanity, Jay. Big kudos! I am just thinking - if Trump got 1 year of prison for each of his 91 charges, that would be just fine.
These are the charges that Trump feared, because a (federal) pardon won’t do a thing for him here.
Joyce Vance did a thorough dissection of the process of "removal" of a criminal case from state to federal jurisdiction, and it's a heavy lift. As Jay mentioned the argument centers upon "official duties of a US federal officer", and "coloration of office", arguments which failed in the NY "hush money" case, but absolutely will be attempted in Atlanta again. He'll probably lose, but why pass up a sure delay-delay-delay opportunity?
https://joycevance.substack.com/p/can-a-state-criminal-case-get-transferred/comments
Also, tRump went on his SM site last night to explicitly warn former GA Lt Gov. Geoff Duncan NOT to testify before the Fulton Cty grand jury...can't keep his gob shut, overt witness intimidation, more of his "You going for me? I'm coming for you"! thuggery. He just doesn't give a toss because he knows judges won't jail his sorry arse regardless of previous warnings. Let's see if this latest transgression is brought to the attention of Judge Shutkan, even though this particular witness may not be part of the DC Jan6 indictment.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-tells-georgia-witness-not-to-testify/ar-AA1fgdyy
Ankle bracelet, confinement to Mar a Lago in the heat & humidity of summer, electronic 'fencing' to restrict where he would be allowed on the property (no golf).
Thank you for the breakdown. I tried reading the indictment this morning and it made my head spin. I'm not as gleeful as I thought I'd be, for a couple of reasons. First, he already has 3 indictments and that hasn't changed anything. He's still threatening people on social media and holding his ridiculous rallies. Second, I was hoping for members of Congress to be named. Mostly Lindsey and Marge. It infuriates me that over 140 members of Congress, after the insurrection, voted no on certifying the election. That most of those people are still in Congress, doing everything they can to still destroy us, from the inside, sends me right over the edge. If trump becomes President and Republicans remain in charge of the House and heaven forbid, the Senate, our country is done. We must vote in every election at every level. Most of the bad behavior is started in state government and even local school boards. We need to stop that. Democrats need to get laser focused on messaging and not let the media lead the story into bullshit. Of course, our media needs to become much better. No more letting Republican lies go without pushback. No more normalizing any of this. We are in entirely new waters and we all must rise to the occasion to save our country.
I also expected to see Graham. I am waiting for Cruz & Hawley to get snagged somewhere.
I totally agree with you! 👍🏻
Yes, the infamous Epshteyn...wonder if Boris Epshteyn is amongst the thirty "unindicted co-conspirators" in the GA case, as exhaustive work done by NYT reporters and the Jan6 Committee put him well into a co-ordinating mode in Nov/Dec 2020 involving the "fake electors" scheme, amongst other chicanery. His prints are all over hundreds of email exchanges with several indicted principals in both the GA and DC indictments, and it would seem that either Fani Willis or Jack Smith had ample evidence to rope Epshteyn in any of the multiple charges visited upon others in the WH circle.
The only reason that I can imagine for not indicting him is that he talked, and talked he did, dropping loads of people into the mire, and handing over the receipts.
And why is Ginni Thomas skating (on what I would hope would be thin ice)?
I still haven’t seen anything that looks like she actually committed crimes. I know that isn’t a popular position, but I have to look at the evidence fairly and I just don’t see it.
Annoying, isn’t it? But she’s an irritant, rather than a criminal (unless it’s accessory to fraud, for helping her husband spend billionaires money?)
Hoping that bail actually has to be posted for any and all indicted, and that it is bigly, like no one has ever seen before! He created more jobs, since leaving office than he did when installed, disproportionately attorney for attorney. 😎
He’d have to pay them!
Lol, the check is in the mail...good luck with that!
I was sort of expecting Lindsay Graham to be on the list of the indicted.
Like Ginni Thomas, what Lindsey Graham did is probably not illegal in my view, though it was questionable. It’s likely protected under Speech & Debate protection, or at least partially.
Also claimed to be an "interested party" in his rôle as a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee...but I think we all know he was down there in GA carrying tRump's water for him.
From what I understood from folks on MSNBC tonite is that the Georgia RICO law doesn’t necessarily require all members of the criminal enterprise to have committed individual crimes. Being part of the enterprise that commits the larger crime can be enough to indict? It’s humongous, as it is though. Impossible to include everyone that was part of it and still expect results in this decade
I’m guessing Lindsey flipped.
New game---"Where's Lindsey?"
I keep wondering when the Russians and Saidis will cut off Rustrumptin.
Thank you! You help provide the clarity. I’m beyond grateful to you!
Thank you. I'm wondering about this:
"There were some surprises on the list, too. The two biggest were Mark Meadows, who was Trump’s former chief of staff, and Jenna Ellis, who worked with Rudy Giuliani and helped spread election lies. Their inclusion implies that neither is cooperating with prosecutors in Georgia, even though it is widely suspected that they may be cooperating with Jack Smith’s office in D.C. I presume neither Meadows nor Ellis wants to get swept up in the RICO whirlpool in Georgia, but both are now charged with one very dangerous RICO count. And both have to be careful that what they might say to a jury in D.C. doesn’t land them in big trouble down in Georgia."
Does that limit what these two witnesses will be willing to say to a jury in D.C.? (does it weaken the federal prosecution?) Why would they cooperate in D.C. & not in Georgia? Or, are people expecting they will quickly start cooperating with prosecutors in Georgia?
I’m going to take a wait and see attitude. It’s very curious to me, esp Meadows.
IF Meadows cops a plea in exchange for testimony against other defendants in the GA indictment, can that plea/testimony be used by Jack Smith AGAINST Meadows in a later indictment in federal court? Or is there a possible "double jeopardy" issue here?
Good question.