This is excellent. Exactly the information we need to not be subsumed with panic over shock and awe. Iām going to try to forward this to Heather Cox Richardson ā although she may have already have it.
Sadly, this level of authoritarian malfeasance requires that we play a little dirty. The kids that Jay mentioned who are helping Musk have been doxxed pretty thoroughly, so I hope that they have their names on multiple lawsuits and end up with an early lesson on what it is like to be the defendants in class action suits. If they have to scramble for the next 20 years to pay the debt incurred by losing these class action lawsuits, I will have no sympathy for them. They're criminals. If they stole access like this under a normal administration, they'd face criminal penalties, too.
Unless thereās some kind of Statute of limitations on the crimes these young men are doing in the name of MUSK /THEIL I think that they will be tried and found guilty within 2 to 4 years. Iād like to see their little lives ruined.
I suspect the statute of limitations would be the normal 7 years, unless this (also) insane Congress passes a law protecting them or President Musk has whoever is president in a couple years issue a preemptive pardon.
Iām with you on the vacation! I was planning one late last night. A much needed escape is needed to regroup and shut this noise down for my own sanity.
I'm pretty sure they'll just get pardoned,unless there's state crimes that can also be applied. I don't hold any faith in the courts for holding people accountable. I'm also just waiting for the ruling that Donald says "I don't care what you say.." because really who's gonna make him. No one will arrest and he has king powers. Vance is already on board per his past comments about the president doesn't have to listen to the courts.... I guess we'll see.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know.
Thanks Sharon. My day in Germany is still night in the US. I have both called and written because my Senators Duckworth and Durbin do respond to my emails and it is cheaper from abroad.
Linda, I write, and not only that, I hear back unless I specifically say I'm fine with not getting a response. I respect Andra, but I think she bases a lot on what she is familiar with. Different places have different political cultures and that can impact how constituents can interact with reps. (I know one place where literally the only way to get through to the rep is to show up en masse at the office- glad I don't live there.
There was one thing I fully agree with, though: people, get to know your Senators and representative, and do enough so that they (or their staff, which is more likely) recognize your name. Don't just write when you're mad or upset. If they are progressive, they also need to know we have their back. Keep your message simple: the main thing is that they know you support their position. The number of constituents who contact them is a form of power we give them that strengthens the influence of their voices.
Writing right wing reps is different. ONLY write if they are your own reps. Tell them that you are disappointed in their position and ask them to reconsider. Tell them why, but keep it simple. Rants are going to be ignored, and you need that energy to do something else that is positive (like joining an action group, maybe).
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
So it sounds as if you've already just given up, and just waiting for what you see as inevitable. As Timothy Snyder put it: "Do not obey in advance". That's good advice. At the very least, we need to make it as hard on them as we can. From the looks of things, we are having an impact: T and friends are making "adjustments".
We need people like you to do what you can if we're going to make it stick, though. As American citizens, we have an obligation to do more than "just wait and see". If all you can do is contact your Senators and rep, do that. Folks here are trying to help people learn about how small actions can add up to a mighty force.
I am not going to fuss right now about what will happen to Elon's young team: that will come out in the wash, as my mother used to say. Right now the priority is to make noise (that's a metaphor) to make it possible for this country to retain the validity of our Constitution and the integrity of our democracy. DO something. Please.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know.
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
Well, you can also go to Audra Watkinsā Substack, For a Time Such As This, and open her Feb 3, 2025 Post, titled āA Private Citizen has Commandeered the Federal Treasury. Call Your Politicians NOW.ā Good Luck
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know. The idea has to take hold in the popular consciousness, so that it becomes a mantra, "Impeach and Imprison Trump! Deport Musk!
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
Thank you for these cogent points. They give me some hope. Some say that "the courts are too slow." Yes, but they are still there. I'm holding on to that for now.
I don't believe for a minute they will have to be financially responsible for anything. Musk most likely has them set up for life, and I would imagine they no longer live with Mommy and Daddy.
I wish you would, as the zeigeist you identify over the weekend is that the oh-so-constrained "we're not allowed to effect anything but stern letters hoping to do better in the next election" political response is 1) inadequate to exigency 2) presuming a next election the Fascisti confidently don't expect, 3) entirely alienating the very supporters who are looking for *performance* -- though it may muss the dignity of a career scene -- for encouragement, precisely if it seems battering one's head against a granite cliff.
We feel helpless and hopeless and that nothing can be done *because* our political "leaders" are demonstrating that nothing is being done. Yes, I understand "the party out of power has limited power" but you notice GOP managed to grind quite a few things to a halt -- performatively -- in it's time out of power. Indeed, we lose elections over and over and over for the simple reason that the public rightly understands that Republican Will to Power succeeds, while Democrat " pass the milquetoast" does not.
Sadly, I think you're right. The Republicans were loud and in your face during the Biden Administration. And they had a lot of help from FOX News, etc.
Youāre so right. In the end it still comes down to who controls the narrative, and the resistance isnāt doing that. We donāt seriously exist outside of Substack and maybe Bluesky. I really hope a powerful movement rises from these quiet roots.
Anne, we seriously exist outside Substack. If that's all you pay attention to, you are missing a movement that is growing and building coalitions. Some of us also participate on various substacks, because we need to do deep exploration and keep learning. Substack is a tremendous resource, and a great place to learn, explore, meet and exchange ideas. But for action, we go elsewhere (and some substacks help people find those places).
The thing that bothers me is that increasingly there seem to be more and more people using substack as an escape from action, a place to vent rather than explore. And then there are the posts full of "must" and "should", thus cutting off real discussion. I regularly read some of my substack authors, but skip the comments because of that.
Jay's substack has been a breath of fresh air. Not only is Jay a genuinely nice guy, he is deeply insightful and his analyses are thoughtful and informative. I've really enjoyed the comments here, responding to the tone set my Jay. I sure hope the ennui that some folks are introducing doesn't change that.
This is what I love to hear! Thanks Anne, for the encouraging message. When you say, ā.. a movement that is growing and building coalitions.ā, can I ask what you mean? Are you talking about local action groups?
Yes I feel this whole entire article shows the weakness that is not needed right now. Press conferences and letters and social media posts and saying no and then quitting your job. This is not where we're at. Are Representatives must do more! No Excuses!
What we can learn from the Nazis and the South Koreans? Do not wait until the fascists are comfortable and entrenched. They are not yet. The time to act is now. It is a time for personal responsibility.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know. The idea has to take hold in the popular consciousness, so that it becomes a mantra, "Impeach and Imprison Trump! Deport Musk!
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know. The idea has to take hold in the popular consciousness, so that it becomes a mantra, "Impeach and Imprison Trump! Deport Musk!
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
Actually, we are winning races, and each election cycle sees more wins. Unfortunately, some of the losses are painful, especially when they are so close. This is true at all levels. Trump squeaked in via the electoral college. We had some significant wins at the state and local levels, and that is the level we need to be concentrating on right now.
There is a lot more going on than you seem to be aware of, and maybe it would help if you took your eyes off of Trump/Elon's bright shiny distractions and took a look around outside the Capitol Mall, WaDC. Right now, WaDC is scary as hell, but there are things happening out there in the United States of America, which is where most of us live, that are full of potential, and exciting. We are peeling away the right wing patina, and change is starting to happen. Feel hopeless? Doing something with other folks is the best antidote.
Alliance for Retired Americans, AFGE, and SEIU filed a lawsuit against Treasury Dept. to block disclosure of personal and financial information to Musk and DOGE.
Warren is one of my Senators. She is probably sick of my emails but she always does the right thing, as does Ed Markey, my other Senator. Even if you are singing to the choir politicians like these deserve our thanks. I find the First Felons agenda reprehensible and believe Musk and his fan boys should be banished from DC.
Jeanne (and everyone else!) please continue to thank your representatives that are doing the right thing. They are due our thanks and encouragement to "keep on keepin' on"!
I also come from Massachusetts and have been calling Senators Warren and Markey to tell them how outraged I am but also to let them know that they have always had the people's best interests. I also thanked Elizabeth Warren for her excellent questioning of Trump's unqualified Cabinet picks.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know. The idea has to take hold in the popular consciousness, so that it becomes a mantra, "Impeach and Imprison Trump! Deport Musk!
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
Our Oregon Senators Merkley and Wyden are also on the front lines of resistance. I constantly send them emails thanking them for their action on one issue or another.
Indivisible, Move On, and Working Families Party now recommend that we show up in person at our senatorsā local offices and make our demands strong and visible, and obviously non-violent.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know. The idea has to take hold in the popular consciousness, so that it becomes a mantra, "Impeach and Imprison Trump! Deport Musk!
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
BY FEB 7th??!!! Good grief, what AFTER all the damage is done?! After everything is dismantled and he's done what he's going to do? And also, who is gonna physically make him do anything she wants? This isn't the politics of yesteryear. If it were the other way around the Republicans would have been calling their supporters to come fight and throwing poo in the halls of Congress. No, I'm not advocating throwing poo, but the polite old-timey way they used to do things is done. By Feb 7th it may be too late.
Right? We're being told all this is illegal and unconstitutional, yet they have to wait for lawsuits and such that might not even work before they defend the Constitution? If trump and musk are enacting a hostile takeover right now, they should be removed RIGHT NOW.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know. The idea has to take hold in the popular consciousness, so that it becomes a mantra, "Impeach and Imprison Trump! Deport Musk!
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
The urgency was simply not there for what happened on Thursday and Friday. Elected representatives should have been inside the office buildings, making public statements, sitting in, and calling the people to come. They were distracted by the DNC election and lacked a sufficient sense of urgency or even the right mindset of obstruction at all costs. I absolutely understand that we are out of power, but Democrats should use every procedural mechanism to bring the business of the Senate to a halt until Musk and his unelected crypto fascists are out of our government offices. Now we have a bunch of unelected tech bros in control and possession of a massive amount of sensitive data. I appreciate you but letters are not the answer. We need much, much more.
Love you Jay and thank you. However, another thousand times this from Annette. As someone married to a retired air traffic controller, we are both on SS. So, our data has been compromised with no notice that it ever happened or what will be done to protect us in the future. These clowns just copied all OPM data into an unsecure/non-FEDRAMPed cloud infrastructure and left it open to anyone for 2 entire days. It's illegal theft of government data, copied out to unsecured cloud servers, and they're doing the bidding of a billionaire with no legal standing or remit to do anything he's doing. I have seen no actionable answer to any of these violations.
I can't imagine this won't launch an armada of lawsuits. The lawsuits won't reverse the fact that the info was exposed in an unsecured location, but hopefully it will cost the perps some money, including the dumb ass kids who are helping Musk. Those punk tech bros better soon have their names on about 500 lawsuits and see how it feels to lose what little they have. We know who they are.
And if he weren't wealthy and cultivating a certain social milieu, he would have already had his citizenship revoked and deported. He's not exactly the model citizen. There are a number of fairly recent instances in which (naturalized) citizenship was revoked for far less egregious acts than Musk's. Somehow he has convinced people he is indispensable. I would posit that his deficits outweigh any contributions he has made to our society (and even the value of those can be questioned).
Oh, my. Talk about a can of worms. Unfortunately, in this case, we are kind of stuck, because attempts to denaturalize must meet cause, set by law. The cases go through the office of the Secretary of State, and ultimately are decided by a federal judge. Damn. Plus, of course, there is an appeal process. And then Trump could pardon him... though that could be touchy if his actions are found to be treasonous. Even then, I can see the reactionary right claiming otherwise.
My overseas resources are aghast. They cannot conceive of any democratic country allowing a private citizen to get away with what Musk is doing. Which sort of describes the dilemma we are in, doesn't it?
Yes and no, and it's complicated. He was born in South Africa and thus a citizen there. His mother was Canadian, and so Musk would have a claim for Canadian citizenship through her. He did live in Canada for a short time before coming to the US, but I found no reference that indicates he actually applied to have his claim recognized (I did not do a deep dive on this, and my take is that if he had, it would have come up).
He entered the US from Canada on a US student visa, ostensibly to go to Harvard, but did not register for classes. Instead he worked for a tech company. He later applied for a work visa and continued work in the tech arena, eventually becoming a US citizen. There are legitimate questions about his citizenship application... but whether the inconsistencies (for lack of a better word) are enough justification to revoke citizenship is up for debate. Which has been going on for some time.
If Musk's actions come under question as possibly qualifying him for denationalization, then any inconsistencies in his original application might be taken into consideration. But I'm not holding my breath, given the course that denationalization takes and the fact that Trump controls that process through his appointees. <sigh>
Exploring this whole question made me wonder: I know lots of people who have dual citizenship with various countries (including, of course, Canada) but Musk presents an interesting hypothetical, that of triple citizenship. I learned that some countries allow this, but in some countries, you can become a citizen only by renouncing citizenship in any other countries. I think that's on Trump's list, from things he's said. Boo.
More importantly why hasnāt that been done. Getting a little tired of these fukktwats doing whatever they please and getting wristslaps when ANYBODY ELSE DOING THIS SHIT WOULD ALREADY BE IN JAIL FACING LIFE TERMS OR WORSE. Whattheactualfuck is going on ?
He'll trip himself up. He's not in much better shape mentally than Trump, if reports about his Ketamine use are true, and, guessing from his behavior, I'd guess those reports are true.
Kerry, you can file a complaint as a consumer with your State's Attorney General office that your private SS information has been stolen by Musk, an unauthorized entity. Use this link to identify who your Stage AG is. https://www.usa.gov/state-attorney-general
You are probably right. But there's hope: Vermont is with at least 22 states who are jointly bringing legal action over this. If we win, it will cover you.
I am so angry that this ever was allowed to happen. I just heard that Musk is now a "special federal employee", whatever that means. Somehow he and Trump think that covers his intrusion into classified and confidential material. I don't think it even covers his presence in our government, period, but they didn't ask me (or anyone, for that matter).
My thought exactly! Iām contacting my stateās AG just to have a record of my concern. I would be glad to sign on to any suits brought where I was a victim of this data breach.
Better. Lawsuit: AGs of (at last count) 22 States against the Trump administration. Vermont among them. If successful, safeguards everybody and inhibits other actions like this.
Alliance for Retired Americans, AFGE, and SEIU filed a lawsuit against Treasury Dept. to block disclosure of personal and financial information to Musk and DOGE.
Yes. Why did any of them vote to approve Bessett. Something like 16 did even after it was known what Musk was up to. They gave him their votes trusting he wouldnāt help Musk? Crazy.
Anybody else want a list of all the Democrats who voted for that asshole itās on the newest missive from Individible that just came out today in referring their very important talk that happened last nightā¦ Thereās a list of all of them. Some of them will surprise you, Cory Booker for instance what the heck is he thinking ..Ruben Gallego what is he thinking? What about Mark kelly why are they voting for that man who let Musk & his monkeys into OPM ?????
Yeah, I sat there wondering what in the world?. Only thing I could come up with is that they knew it was going to pass anyway and were trying to keep some doors open for other things. I don't see these people giving their vote away free, and this was just a safe place to create an opening for the future. Negotiating one's way through a minefield requires some careful planning, and sometimes things look like something they are not.
Also look to Canada. They are standing strong and united in defiance of the catastrophic tariffs baselessly imposed by the deranged felon and rapist in chief. We need to follow their lead.
You are so incredibly talented at making sense out of nonsense, Jay. This entire post has given me a sense of purpose (great reggae song by Third World) as well as some measure of comfort. Glad to know that Elizabeth Warren and others are fighting back.
Sorry Jay, this feels like a fait accompli. The groups that should be the bulwark for this illegality are the DOJ and the FBI, and except for Dennehy in the NY office of the FBI, it seems that the watchers are all compromised.
And the *hope* that the courts will step in seems to be weak sauce. Once it gets to the SCOTUS, who would bet that they rule the right way.
And even if they do, the organization that would enforce the laws will be the FBI, and I doubt that Director Patel will be acting.
Nope, it is pretty bleak. I was in a dark place before he was sworn in, yet even my darkest views have been exceeded. I was told by a lot of people that I was being too dramatic. Turns out that I was too timid in my estimates of how bad it would be.
My biggest disappointment is Biden. He could have, quite simply and legally, arrested Trump before the inaugural. Thanks to immunity, he didn't even really need to come up with a reason. I realize Biden is old school, but Trump broadcast loud and clear what his plans were. None of what he has done has been a surprise to me, other than letting Musk seize the payments system. I gotta admit, that one surprised me.
The jury is still out for me on the current response ā but I absolutely respect those who are not satisfied ā but the level of darkness imposed by Trump has even slightly, although not by much, exceeded my expectations. Hang in there. As Joyce Vance says, we're all in this together.
Even if they do, itās too little too late. Trump & Co believe they can ensure there are no further elections, so they donāt give a whit what MAGA thinks now. We have to fight tooth and nail, to prevent it.
No he didn't, if he tried to do that you can get your ass SCOTUS would've said "nuh uh" as the way they worded their decision was that THEY get to decide what constitutes an "official act".
Heard where? We don't do "from what I've heard" here. Who said? Based on what info? And where did the info come from? I hope to heck you are right, but I need to know where that came from. Otherwise it's just like FB.
Someone who worked for the government said he would've been far more worried if the GOP tried to do this slowly over the course of several years, trying to do this all at once so quickly only makes it more likely it'll backfire on them big time.
This is a privilege with some of us just don't have. Fuck optimism. We need realism right now and action. Those of us who would lose everything including their lives it's this shit gets worse optimism isn't what we fn need!
We rely on our government and the legal system to do what is right to stop this man. I can do nothing while laying here. And that's all I can do. Send a few messages letters. That's not what we need.
realism isn't the same thing as just giving up saying "welp we're fucked now", that's not a "luxury" it's common sense. MAGA wants you to despair and be hopeless, I for one refuse to give in and play their little game.
Realism for some of us who are bed bound and rely on government services that we paid into to survive IS potentially eventually actually giving up.
Now don't get me wrong I'm sending letters I'm speaking up I'm sharing things. But I can only do so much from this bed. And everything I do affects my health drastically even commenting back to you.
And the only place I go is with my wheelchair with non-emergency medical transport where I have to be reclined and nearly laying. That is provided by Medicare and Medicaid and only to medical appointments.
The care I get is from caregivers who are provided by Medicaid. So you're privilege to even write that to me is showing how clueless people are for the situation that some of us are in.
If that shit really hits the fan and we lose social security and Medicare and Medicaid and snap some of us are dying.
That doesn't mean we're not fighting. You don't have a clue how much some of us fight each day just to survive and just to try to get the truth out. Then maybe do a little bit to try to make an impact.
But ultimately for those of us who rely on these systems that are tax dollars paid into to survive will die without them. So think a lot deeper about your privilege before you comment.
Oh I do "have a clue" as i'm on Medicaid myself, i'm saying that making statements like "fuck optimism" is only helping the GOP and not accomplishing anything.
It's got nothing to do with "privilege" it's about reality and Rubio has contradicted Muskrat's claims already about USAID so I don't expect him to do anything to SS or Medicare and Medicaid either(if only because a lot of the GOP's base relies on them and heads would roll if they actually tried to get rid of them for good).
If that's what you can do, then do it, and do it with a sense of triumph. I am limited in what I can do too. It's frustrating. So part of the mission I set myself was to remind everyone who feels despair that we are not alone in what we are doing.
We need your letters, and you are the only one who can write them. All our letters, all our phone calls, each tiny thing we do, all together matter. I love attending group meetings by Indivisible and Markers and others, the ones where we are all on Zoom and seeing each other's faces. Some are very active, some are like me, some are like you, and we're together, part of the resistance. Seeing those faces on that screen is exhilarating and joyful, something I need to see and share.
We have to rely on State Attorney Generals and State and Federal Civil Courts for legal action. The responsible Trump administration officials and special employees (guess who) should be named in the lawsuits along with the government.
Ok, but by the time any of that happens, the damage will be done, and Musk will be beyond prosecution (or pardoned by Trump).
The courts aren't going to save us. They may be able to mop up the mess, but not before the fabric of the social contract and government is torn to shreds.
To quote the great Fats Waller, āOne Never Knows, Do One?ā, we canāt assume that all is lost. You enter the fray, use the best tools at your disposal and hope for lucky breaks. Given Trump and companyās history of in-fighting, over reaching etc I think that resistance can be effective.
Many independent journalists were hot on it yesterday. I have paid subscriptions to at least a dozen on Substack. As soon as they sounded the alarm, I started emailing my elected officials at all levels, federal, state and local. Today, I filed a complaint with my Governor and AG about Muskās illegal activities.
Jay, I guess I am missing something here. Does the simple act of Trump telling Musk it's OK to break into a federal building make it legal? Then break into secure data files on federal employees, Medicare recipients, and many others is OK too?
This is my sincere question too. I'm not asking just to vent, but genuinely asking for Jay or others with legal expertise to answer: Can't the police arrest *anyone* who breaks into protected US government computer systems? If Musk and his staff are openly defying the "basic rules on access and confidentiality" as you say, why are they not under arrest? Why do we have to wait for lawsuits and being held in contempt of court?
If someone walked into my house and stole my belongings and bragged about it on social media, wouldn't the police be able to make an arrest, without me having to go through a lengthy lawsuit process first?
This is my question as well. Illegal actions are being taken by someone who has no authority to do anything. Unconstitutional acts are being taken by trump. Why is there no path to arrest and remove? Why wait for lawsuits that might not work or be dismissed and let them destroy the country in the meantime?
Same question as all the rest. Action for the illegal actions they are taking is what I expect. Not social media posts and press conferences and letters and notes. Arrest them now! Stop with this weakness!
Legal or not, it's been done. Illegality doesn't matter anymore. Who's going to say no to the richest man in the world who has the backing of the president? What government entity is going to march in and arrest Elon Musk, actually lay hands on him, handcuff him, and frogmarch him out of the Eisenhower Office Building? Or even persuade him to stop? He's doing what Dumpy wants him to do, and Dumpy's minions now control the FBI and the DoJ. Mayor Bowser and the DC PD? I don't think telling him, "Hey, Mr. Musk, what you're doing is illegal! Stop in the name of the law!" Even if there's a judge out there who rules our way on the lawsuits, who is going to walk into a building and make Elon Musk stop?
Why not? What protections does he have in his āpositionā in a ādepartmentā that was pulled out of a hat and is not on anyoneās rolodex? Itās generalized fear I think. Since this unelected co-clown has hit the spotlight, Iāve wondered what happens to the ego when you can Literally buy your way in and out of ANYTHING. Heck. You could even buy a country. If you wanted.
Oh, wait ā¦
Another thing that bothers me lots ā¦ if youāre so inclined ā¦ look up Starlink and focus on their clientele, their reach, and ask whatās stopping him from turning of the lights off if heās a mind to. Heās a friggen loose cannon. Jumping with glee that he gets to seriously cosplay a Whitehouse position. Why isnāt that illegal?
A lot of the problems come down to the fact that our constitution is an old relic and badly needs an overhaul. But people whoāve come and gone canāt even agree to the wall paint color. Constitutional examination and overhaul would be impossible. But here we stand, with no way to mobilize against the reality that, as it stands, the Constitution too frequently has zero effect in dealing with modern realities.
I agree with you on everything but your last paragraph. In my view, the Constitution works when people respect both its content and its intent.
But we have to look for the problem that originates in our own society, which is built on a myth of individualism and the possibility of accumulation of wealth by any means possible. We have failed to respect the guardrails that go with capitalism as we have designed it, around the assumption of class differences. Yes, that old thing again.
The writers of our Constitution recognized the dangers and tried to create a system that would allow us to grow into it. Yes, the Constitution is imperfect, but over time we have used the built in mechanism it created to correct it when needed and to add to it as our sense of democracy grew.
We failed the Constitution, not the other way round, by allowing a distorted kind of capitalist economy to become dominant, controlled by a few people whose main interest was creating a class system that served them. The irony is that at the same time, there have always been creative, insightful, dedicated people working on other ways to seeing the world and how we live in it.
Too many of us allow the chaos to drive how we think and do things, instead of turning to and using the techniques that can create meaningful protection of democracy and our freedom to make our personal choices without interference.
I hear you. But I think both ādirectionsā apply. People need to develop a respect thats been lost. But to effectively engage people into that awareness, we have to know more about why they wonāt engage. What has chased people away from it? Some of that is certainly education. But I think a clear example that illustrates what Iām talking about are that Black people, constitutionally, should be able to count on being stopped for a legitimate traffic violation without fear of being shot for same. Another example is that the parents of SandyHook babies, and shooting victims everywhere, should be able to have the 2nd amendment re-codified to reflect that the framers made gun laws based on ideas of militia involvement ā with guns that took, what, at least a minute, to reload? They could not have foreseen todayās works on such matters. They also included next to nothing on the problems we are faced with now: a crook as president who wants to be king. And is āhiringā his ācourtā.
That's also been my question all weekend! Why haven't they been removed from the building? If I had walked in there and done what Musk's minions have done, wouldn't I have been escorted out or arrested? Those young men have no more security clearances than I do.
"The Federal Protective Services (FPS) is the uniformed police division of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. They protect the physical buildings and property of the federal government, including the Capitol building."
Is it worth calling them? Their website asks the public "Have you seen something suspicious within a federal building?"
The FPS reports to the Secretary of Homeland Security, who then reports to the President. Do you really think newly sworn in Kristi Noem is going to approve the arrest of Musk? In South Dakota she claimed that Mexican drug cartels were rampant on reservations, and that tribal leaders were profiting over parenting children. She is banned from entering onto any tribal land there currently. There really are no guardrails now.
Yes, they control the Dept of Justice, who I believe supervises the U.S. Marshals Office, the folks who would carry out an arrest warrant on behalf of the Amercian people. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
And I say again -- Why isn't Musk's illegal accessing of confidential financial records of millions of people both a crime AND a class action civil suit? The blue state attorney generals should make a case for the class action claim and assess $100s of millions in damage payments to Musk on behalf of all of the citizens with financial records in the system. Especially since I suspect that they took the information out of the Treasury building on the hard drives and other devices they took into the building.
I wrote to my California attorney general yesterday and posted the text of my message on Joyce Vance's Substack. Many people responded and said they would do the same for theirs. Here it is:
Dear AG Bonta,
As you know, Elon Musk, a private citizen with no standing in the federal government, has unlawfully taken possession of a highly sensitive US government computer that holds confidential information on American citizens and the payments made to us through government programs. This move is illegal and must be stopped. Please use every tool at your disposal to protect us and punish Musk, Trump, Bessent, and the others responsible for this horrendous breach of our privacy and theft of our personal information.
Slick is not a requirement. And sometimes just a simple statement catches what needs to be said more clearly. The fact that you did it is what matters most. Thank you.
Notably missing from your Dem politico list is Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffreys - the latter always willing to "work with" li'l Mikey Johnson in a - *cough-cough* - " bipartisan manner". Schumer made some really stupid comments this weekend to the effect that the Dems "won't oppose everything" tRumpy, but will "lay on the tracks" to stop exceptionally bad policies...Chuck, you already are on "the tracks", and the tRump train has turned you and your party into boeuf tartare..."lay on the tracks" - lol!
There should be ZERO working with Republicans until Musk is out, Civil Rights returns to Justice, and Trump impeachment underway - emoluments clause for the Meme Coins purchased by "whales", likely is a great place to begin, as if other unconstitutional acts aren't obvious
Iāve been leaving messages for Chuck Schumer about him being a WIMPā¦ He pushed through that Laken Riley thing because he wanted it expedited ..that is criminal
A group of democrats marched down to the USAID offices this afternoon, this is the action we need. It shines a big spotlight on the situation that not ever our complacent media can ignore.
Yes. We are finding that Rep and Dem voicemails in state and DC offices are garbled and inaudible.
One specific story about my Congresswoman Foushee. And I am sharing this here and there so maybe she will follow through:
Today I spoke to legislative aide Sarah. As with Hunter/Sammy in the office, she has an š sense of humor. When I asked her if her name was with an H or A. She said H, 'for that is the correct way'.
She also took very seriously my suggestion (which I believe one of you posed) to conduct a town hall. Sarah said that is an excellent idea and she will immediately relay that to the communications director and their team.
Senators Merkley & Hoyle of Oregon spent the weekend holding several town halls across the state. Hundreds of people attended. Their main message was to fight back. Complain loudly.
I was born and grew up in Oregon. I still keep track of what's going on there. Vermont has a fine Congressional team who are on the same wavelength as Oregon's but I still kind of feel like the folks in Oregon represent me. I'm a homesick westerner, and miss all you.
That could be part of it, but there was also a major sunspot eruption (like HUGE) that disrupted some kinds of communications over a large part of the earth yesterday and may erupt again this week. Sorry, afflicted with nerdism here. These things jump our at me. Just thought this one might help understand why garbled phone stuff, cause they use frequencies near those that are usually affected.
Musk is an interloper in the US government who DOES NOT BELONG THERE. He should be deported with alacrity. He is functioning like Joseph McCarty, a fanatic attempting to weed out people who don't fit his, Musk's, definition of whatever "standards" he is trying to enforce.
Regarding our politicians: āAnd the more experienced among them donāt waste political capital on performative stunts that donāt actually fix anything.ā What would these performative stunts be? Denying a quorum to slow the Senate process?Blocking unanimous consent to kill fast-track confirmations? These arenāt performative actions. Theyāre the rules by which the Senate operates. Play by the rules but slow the process down to allow public attention to focus on what exactly is happening.
Thanks, Jay. There is much more to do. Many of the phone lines today were garbled or inactive. I'm grateful for your messaging and clarity and for those in the government who are taking an active stance. These evening and weekend "raids" must be stopped.
Interesting. I tried to contact my republican senator, ron johnson*, today. When I called the Hart office I got never-ending Muzak. When I called his state office, the voice mail was completely garbled. I finally emailed him.
*My passive aggressive response to fascists is to never capitalize their names. I'm sure we'll all reap the benefits any day now! /s
Same for Tim Kaine (VA senator)ās phone lines - I tried his DC office and a couple regional offices this morning and the message was all staticky and slowed down. I tried leaving a voicemail but it didnāt work. For Mark Warnerās office (my other senator) the greeting was normal, but I waited on hold forever and when I tried to leave a message I got disconnected.
This is excellent. Exactly the information we need to not be subsumed with panic over shock and awe. Iām going to try to forward this to Heather Cox Richardson ā although she may have already have it.
It's an excellent **start**.
Sadly, this level of authoritarian malfeasance requires that we play a little dirty. The kids that Jay mentioned who are helping Musk have been doxxed pretty thoroughly, so I hope that they have their names on multiple lawsuits and end up with an early lesson on what it is like to be the defendants in class action suits. If they have to scramble for the next 20 years to pay the debt incurred by losing these class action lawsuits, I will have no sympathy for them. They're criminals. If they stole access like this under a normal administration, they'd face criminal penalties, too.
Hi Charles, I agree. One question: Did you mean to say that Musk's troll-kids should learn what it's like to be class-action defendants?
Unless thereās some kind of Statute of limitations on the crimes these young men are doing in the name of MUSK /THEIL I think that they will be tried and found guilty within 2 to 4 years. Iād like to see their little lives ruined.
The youngsters were cajoled and likely bribed by Mush. They have cut their futures short. I wouldnāt be bothered to see them do time.
I suspect the statute of limitations would be the normal 7 years, unless this (also) insane Congress passes a law protecting them or President Musk has whoever is president in a couple years issue a preemptive pardon.
Lol. Yes, thanks. Edit made.
I'm going to pack up my things now and take a long vacation!
Iām with you on the vacation! I was planning one late last night. A much needed escape is needed to regroup and shut this noise down for my own sanity.
šš
I'm pretty sure they'll just get pardoned,unless there's state crimes that can also be applied. I don't hold any faith in the courts for holding people accountable. I'm also just waiting for the ruling that Donald says "I don't care what you say.." because really who's gonna make him. No one will arrest and he has king powers. Vance is already on board per his past comments about the president doesn't have to listen to the courts.... I guess we'll see.
There are state crimes.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know.
Here is advice from Andra Watkins. She stresses CALL do not write. We should all follow this. https://open.substack.com/pub/andrawatkins/p/a-private-citizen-has-commandeered?r=f0qfn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
Hint: I found Iām more successful calling at night. The voice mail boxes are full during business hrs.
Thanks Sharon. My day in Germany is still night in the US. I have both called and written because my Senators Duckworth and Durbin do respond to my emails and it is cheaper from abroad.
Linda, I write, and not only that, I hear back unless I specifically say I'm fine with not getting a response. I respect Andra, but I think she bases a lot on what she is familiar with. Different places have different political cultures and that can impact how constituents can interact with reps. (I know one place where literally the only way to get through to the rep is to show up en masse at the office- glad I don't live there.
There was one thing I fully agree with, though: people, get to know your Senators and representative, and do enough so that they (or their staff, which is more likely) recognize your name. Don't just write when you're mad or upset. If they are progressive, they also need to know we have their back. Keep your message simple: the main thing is that they know you support their position. The number of constituents who contact them is a form of power we give them that strengthens the influence of their voices.
Writing right wing reps is different. ONLY write if they are your own reps. Tell them that you are disappointed in their position and ask them to reconsider. Tell them why, but keep it simple. Rants are going to be ignored, and you need that energy to do something else that is positive (like joining an action group, maybe).
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
Sadly I agree. Democrats, loyal governmental employees, lawyers etc can all say āItās against the lawā. But that just doesnāt work anymore.
So it sounds as if you've already just given up, and just waiting for what you see as inevitable. As Timothy Snyder put it: "Do not obey in advance". That's good advice. At the very least, we need to make it as hard on them as we can. From the looks of things, we are having an impact: T and friends are making "adjustments".
We need people like you to do what you can if we're going to make it stick, though. As American citizens, we have an obligation to do more than "just wait and see". If all you can do is contact your Senators and rep, do that. Folks here are trying to help people learn about how small actions can add up to a mighty force.
I am not going to fuss right now about what will happen to Elon's young team: that will come out in the wash, as my mother used to say. Right now the priority is to make noise (that's a metaphor) to make it possible for this country to retain the validity of our Constitution and the integrity of our democracy. DO something. Please.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know.
Here is advice from Andra Watkins. She stresses CALL do not write. We should all follow this. https://open.substack.com/pub/andrawatkins/p/a-private-citizen-has-commandeered?r=f0qfn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported.
Here is advice from Andra Watkins. She stresses CALL do not write. We should all follow this. https://open.substack.com/pub/andrawatkins/p/a-private-citizen-has-commandeered?r=f0qfn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
Well, you can also go to Audra Watkinsā Substack, For a Time Such As This, and open her Feb 3, 2025 Post, titled āA Private Citizen has Commandeered the Federal Treasury. Call Your Politicians NOW.ā Good Luck
Scum Musk will pay their legal bills.
Are you kidding? Muskrat f's all the little people equally.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know. The idea has to take hold in the popular consciousness, so that it becomes a mantra, "Impeach and Imprison Trump! Deport Musk!
Here is advice from Andra Watkins. She stresses CALL do not write. We should all follow this. https://open.substack.com/pub/andrawatkins/p/a-private-citizen-has-commandeered?r=f0qfn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
Thank you for these cogent points. They give me some hope. Some say that "the courts are too slow." Yes, but they are still there. I'm holding on to that for now.
I don't believe for a minute they will have to be financially responsible for anything. Musk most likely has them set up for life, and I would imagine they no longer live with Mommy and Daddy.
Sounds like many of us are following similar sources like Heather Cox Richardson , Robert Reich and so on
She recommended Jay
Thanks! I figured - I did post this on her FB page
Yes, and I think this is a great follow up HCR talk last night about what can we do.
Elizabeth Warren (not listed here) also pushed back on Treasury data breach, demanding an answer from Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent by Feb 7
I have a lot more examples from senators and more today from the House. I wish I could highlight them all
I wish you would, as the zeigeist you identify over the weekend is that the oh-so-constrained "we're not allowed to effect anything but stern letters hoping to do better in the next election" political response is 1) inadequate to exigency 2) presuming a next election the Fascisti confidently don't expect, 3) entirely alienating the very supporters who are looking for *performance* -- though it may muss the dignity of a career scene -- for encouragement, precisely if it seems battering one's head against a granite cliff.
We feel helpless and hopeless and that nothing can be done *because* our political "leaders" are demonstrating that nothing is being done. Yes, I understand "the party out of power has limited power" but you notice GOP managed to grind quite a few things to a halt -- performatively -- in it's time out of power. Indeed, we lose elections over and over and over for the simple reason that the public rightly understands that Republican Will to Power succeeds, while Democrat " pass the milquetoast" does not.
Sadly, I think you're right. The Republicans were loud and in your face during the Biden Administration. And they had a lot of help from FOX News, etc.
Youāre so right. In the end it still comes down to who controls the narrative, and the resistance isnāt doing that. We donāt seriously exist outside of Substack and maybe Bluesky. I really hope a powerful movement rises from these quiet roots.
Don't forget Occupy Democrat site and Tribel social App. has a LOT of Democrats followers that post and share democratic messages.
Anne, we seriously exist outside Substack. If that's all you pay attention to, you are missing a movement that is growing and building coalitions. Some of us also participate on various substacks, because we need to do deep exploration and keep learning. Substack is a tremendous resource, and a great place to learn, explore, meet and exchange ideas. But for action, we go elsewhere (and some substacks help people find those places).
The thing that bothers me is that increasingly there seem to be more and more people using substack as an escape from action, a place to vent rather than explore. And then there are the posts full of "must" and "should", thus cutting off real discussion. I regularly read some of my substack authors, but skip the comments because of that.
Jay's substack has been a breath of fresh air. Not only is Jay a genuinely nice guy, he is deeply insightful and his analyses are thoughtful and informative. I've really enjoyed the comments here, responding to the tone set my Jay. I sure hope the ennui that some folks are introducing doesn't change that.
This is what I love to hear! Thanks Anne, for the encouraging message. When you say, ā.. a movement that is growing and building coalitions.ā, can I ask what you mean? Are you talking about local action groups?
Yes I feel this whole entire article shows the weakness that is not needed right now. Press conferences and letters and social media posts and saying no and then quitting your job. This is not where we're at. Are Representatives must do more! No Excuses!
What we can learn from the Nazis and the South Koreans? Do not wait until the fascists are comfortable and entrenched. They are not yet. The time to act is now. It is a time for personal responsibility.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know. The idea has to take hold in the popular consciousness, so that it becomes a mantra, "Impeach and Imprison Trump! Deport Musk!
Here is advice from Andra Watkins. She stresses CALL do not write. We should all follow this. https://open.substack.com/pub/andrawatkins/p/a-private-citizen-has-commandeered?r=f0qfn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
Yes. Iām particularly worried about your point 2.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know. The idea has to take hold in the popular consciousness, so that it becomes a mantra, "Impeach and Imprison Trump! Deport Musk!
Here is advice from Andra Watkins. She stresses CALL do not write. We should all follow this. https://open.substack.com/pub/andrawatkins/p/a-private-citizen-has-commandeered?r=f0qfn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
Actually, we are winning races, and each election cycle sees more wins. Unfortunately, some of the losses are painful, especially when they are so close. This is true at all levels. Trump squeaked in via the electoral college. We had some significant wins at the state and local levels, and that is the level we need to be concentrating on right now.
There is a lot more going on than you seem to be aware of, and maybe it would help if you took your eyes off of Trump/Elon's bright shiny distractions and took a look around outside the Capitol Mall, WaDC. Right now, WaDC is scary as hell, but there are things happening out there in the United States of America, which is where most of us live, that are full of potential, and exciting. We are peeling away the right wing patina, and change is starting to happen. Feel hopeless? Doing something with other folks is the best antidote.
* "career senex"
Alliance for Retired Americans, AFGE, and SEIU filed a lawsuit against Treasury Dept. to block disclosure of personal and financial information to Musk and DOGE.
Thank you! Where did you read this? Finding sources is proving challenging in the chaos!
Warren is one of my Senators. She is probably sick of my emails but she always does the right thing, as does Ed Markey, my other Senator. Even if you are singing to the choir politicians like these deserve our thanks. I find the First Felons agenda reprehensible and believe Musk and his fan boys should be banished from DC.
Jeanne (and everyone else!) please continue to thank your representatives that are doing the right thing. They are due our thanks and encouragement to "keep on keepin' on"!
I also come from Massachusetts and have been calling Senators Warren and Markey to tell them how outraged I am but also to let them know that they have always had the people's best interests. I also thanked Elizabeth Warren for her excellent questioning of Trump's unqualified Cabinet picks.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know. The idea has to take hold in the popular consciousness, so that it becomes a mantra, "Impeach and Imprison Trump! Deport Musk!
Here is advice from Andra Watkins. She stresses CALL do not write. We should all follow this. https://open.substack.com/pub/andrawatkins/p/a-private-citizen-has-commandeered?r=f0qfn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
Our Oregon Senators Merkley and Wyden are also on the front lines of resistance. I constantly send them emails thanking them for their action on one issue or another.
Yes, Indivisible encourages those of you with Dem senators to continue to contact them & support them.
Indivisible, Move On, and Working Families Party now recommend that we show up in person at our senatorsā local offices and make our demands strong and visible, and obviously non-violent.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know. The idea has to take hold in the popular consciousness, so that it becomes a mantra, "Impeach and Imprison Trump! Deport Musk!
Here is advice from Andra Watkins. She stresses CALL do not write. We should all follow this. https://open.substack.com/pub/andrawatkins/p/a-private-citizen-has-commandeered?r=f0qfn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
Musk should be deported. Or sued and jailed. And, yes, our good Senators deserve our thanks!
ā¤ļø "First Felon"
BY FEB 7th??!!! Good grief, what AFTER all the damage is done?! After everything is dismantled and he's done what he's going to do? And also, who is gonna physically make him do anything she wants? This isn't the politics of yesteryear. If it were the other way around the Republicans would have been calling their supporters to come fight and throwing poo in the halls of Congress. No, I'm not advocating throwing poo, but the polite old-timey way they used to do things is done. By Feb 7th it may be too late.
Exactly
too late my ass
Right? We're being told all this is illegal and unconstitutional, yet they have to wait for lawsuits and such that might not even work before they defend the Constitution? If trump and musk are enacting a hostile takeover right now, they should be removed RIGHT NOW.
Iām all for the throwing of poo. Time for dems to be as vile as GOP. The old ways donāt work anymore
Good. She really knows how to put the boot in.
People should take to the streets. Trump should be impeached and imprisoned and Musk should be deported. Everyone should be saying this is the logical outcome of these actions, their signs should say it too, and we should be saying this to everyone we know. The idea has to take hold in the popular consciousness, so that it becomes a mantra, "Impeach and Imprison Trump! Deport Musk!
Here is advice from Andra Watkins. She stresses CALL do not write. We should all follow this. https://open.substack.com/pub/andrawatkins/p/a-private-citizen-has-commandeered?r=f0qfn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I'm not going to click on that link. You have spammed that comment so many times over this thread that I am treating it as a potential phishing/malware link.
The urgency was simply not there for what happened on Thursday and Friday. Elected representatives should have been inside the office buildings, making public statements, sitting in, and calling the people to come. They were distracted by the DNC election and lacked a sufficient sense of urgency or even the right mindset of obstruction at all costs. I absolutely understand that we are out of power, but Democrats should use every procedural mechanism to bring the business of the Senate to a halt until Musk and his unelected crypto fascists are out of our government offices. Now we have a bunch of unelected tech bros in control and possession of a massive amount of sensitive data. I appreciate you but letters are not the answer. We need much, much more.
Love you Jay and thank you. However, another thousand times this from Annette. As someone married to a retired air traffic controller, we are both on SS. So, our data has been compromised with no notice that it ever happened or what will be done to protect us in the future. These clowns just copied all OPM data into an unsecure/non-FEDRAMPed cloud infrastructure and left it open to anyone for 2 entire days. It's illegal theft of government data, copied out to unsecured cloud servers, and they're doing the bidding of a billionaire with no legal standing or remit to do anything he's doing. I have seen no actionable answer to any of these violations.
I can't imagine this won't launch an armada of lawsuits. The lawsuits won't reverse the fact that the info was exposed in an unsecured location, but hopefully it will cost the perps some money, including the dumb ass kids who are helping Musk. Those punk tech bros better soon have their names on about 500 lawsuits and see how it feels to lose what little they have. We know who they are.
They will only laugh at the lawsuits. When you are so rich, legality is moot. They are laughing at all of us.
Gotta try them anyway.
Thatās not really helpful Suzanne
Agree 100 percent. How and who can issue a warrant for Muskās arrest.
And deportation. ICE needs to go after this illegal alien.
137866 unfortunately he has citizenship. But that could be revoked
And if he weren't wealthy and cultivating a certain social milieu, he would have already had his citizenship revoked and deported. He's not exactly the model citizen. There are a number of fairly recent instances in which (naturalized) citizenship was revoked for far less egregious acts than Musk's. Somehow he has convinced people he is indispensable. I would posit that his deficits outweigh any contributions he has made to our society (and even the value of those can be questioned).
By whom?
Oh, my. Talk about a can of worms. Unfortunately, in this case, we are kind of stuck, because attempts to denaturalize must meet cause, set by law. The cases go through the office of the Secretary of State, and ultimately are decided by a federal judge. Damn. Plus, of course, there is an appeal process. And then Trump could pardon him... though that could be touchy if his actions are found to be treasonous. Even then, I can see the reactionary right claiming otherwise.
My overseas resources are aghast. They cannot conceive of any democratic country allowing a private citizen to get away with what Musk is doing. Which sort of describes the dilemma we are in, doesn't it?
I donāt know what the grounds are in Canada and South Africa for revoking birthright citizenship, but heās a citizen of both countries, right?
Yes and no, and it's complicated. He was born in South Africa and thus a citizen there. His mother was Canadian, and so Musk would have a claim for Canadian citizenship through her. He did live in Canada for a short time before coming to the US, but I found no reference that indicates he actually applied to have his claim recognized (I did not do a deep dive on this, and my take is that if he had, it would have come up).
He entered the US from Canada on a US student visa, ostensibly to go to Harvard, but did not register for classes. Instead he worked for a tech company. He later applied for a work visa and continued work in the tech arena, eventually becoming a US citizen. There are legitimate questions about his citizenship application... but whether the inconsistencies (for lack of a better word) are enough justification to revoke citizenship is up for debate. Which has been going on for some time.
If Musk's actions come under question as possibly qualifying him for denationalization, then any inconsistencies in his original application might be taken into consideration. But I'm not holding my breath, given the course that denationalization takes and the fact that Trump controls that process through his appointees. <sigh>
Exploring this whole question made me wonder: I know lots of people who have dual citizenship with various countries (including, of course, Canada) but Musk presents an interesting hypothetical, that of triple citizenship. I learned that some countries allow this, but in some countries, you can become a citizen only by renouncing citizenship in any other countries. I think that's on Trump's list, from things he's said. Boo.
How likely is that?
More importantly why hasnāt that been done. Getting a little tired of these fukktwats doing whatever they please and getting wristslaps when ANYBODY ELSE DOING THIS SHIT WOULD ALREADY BE IN JAIL FACING LIFE TERMS OR WORSE. Whattheactualfuck is going on ?
He'll trip himself up. He's not in much better shape mentally than Trump, if reports about his Ketamine use are true, and, guessing from his behavior, I'd guess those reports are true.
Kerry, you can file a complaint as a consumer with your State's Attorney General office that your private SS information has been stolen by Musk, an unauthorized entity. Use this link to identify who your Stage AG is. https://www.usa.gov/state-attorney-general
Thank you, already done. However I live in Texas and I highly doubt it goes anywhere.
Thank you for taking the action, regardless of what happens.
You are probably right. But there's hope: Vermont is with at least 22 states who are jointly bringing legal action over this. If we win, it will cover you.
I am so angry that this ever was allowed to happen. I just heard that Musk is now a "special federal employee", whatever that means. Somehow he and Trump think that covers his intrusion into classified and confidential material. I don't think it even covers his presence in our government, period, but they didn't ask me (or anyone, for that matter).
Annie, what are your thoughts on what happens if Trump and Company just disregard in court orders, freezes, etc? Any recourse to that?
Thanks Mary! I just submitted a complaint to my State AG.
My thought exactly! Iām contacting my stateās AG just to have a record of my concern. I would be glad to sign on to any suits brought where I was a victim of this data breach.
Massive class action lawsuit!!
Better. Lawsuit: AGs of (at last count) 22 States against the Trump administration. Vermont among them. If successful, safeguards everybody and inhibits other actions like this.
Ohhh, brilliant, thank you!
Alliance for Retired Americans, AFGE, and SEIU filed a lawsuit against Treasury Dept. to block disclosure of personal and financial information to Musk and DOGE.
THIS. ONE THOUSAND TIMES THIS.
Plunk your Congressional ass in front of a bank of cameras outside OPM and dig in. Be the loyal opposition. FFS.
Yes. Why did any of them vote to approve Bessett. Something like 16 did even after it was known what Musk was up to. They gave him their votes trusting he wouldnāt help Musk? Crazy.
Anybody else want a list of all the Democrats who voted for that asshole itās on the newest missive from Individible that just came out today in referring their very important talk that happened last nightā¦ Thereās a list of all of them. Some of them will surprise you, Cory Booker for instance what the heck is he thinking ..Ruben Gallego what is he thinking? What about Mark kelly why are they voting for that man who let Musk & his monkeys into OPM ?????
Yes, Booker is my Senator, and he will hear from me. How do you feel about this vote now, Corey. But good on Andy Kim.
Yeah, I sat there wondering what in the world?. Only thing I could come up with is that they knew it was going to pass anyway and were trying to keep some doors open for other things. I don't see these people giving their vote away free, and this was just a safe place to create an opening for the future. Negotiating one's way through a minefield requires some careful planning, and sometimes things look like something they are not.
Why on earth????
ššššššš
AgreešÆšÆšÆšÆšÆšÆšÆšÆ
Also look to Canada. They are standing strong and united in defiance of the catastrophic tariffs baselessly imposed by the deranged felon and rapist in chief. We need to follow their lead.
You are so incredibly talented at making sense out of nonsense, Jay. This entire post has given me a sense of purpose (great reggae song by Third World) as well as some measure of comfort. Glad to know that Elizabeth Warren and others are fighting back.
Sorry Jay, this feels like a fait accompli. The groups that should be the bulwark for this illegality are the DOJ and the FBI, and except for Dennehy in the NY office of the FBI, it seems that the watchers are all compromised.
And the *hope* that the courts will step in seems to be weak sauce. Once it gets to the SCOTUS, who would bet that they rule the right way.
And even if they do, the organization that would enforce the laws will be the FBI, and I doubt that Director Patel will be acting.
Nope, it is pretty bleak. I was in a dark place before he was sworn in, yet even my darkest views have been exceeded. I was told by a lot of people that I was being too dramatic. Turns out that I was too timid in my estimates of how bad it would be.
My biggest disappointment is Biden. He could have, quite simply and legally, arrested Trump before the inaugural. Thanks to immunity, he didn't even really need to come up with a reason. I realize Biden is old school, but Trump broadcast loud and clear what his plans were. None of what he has done has been a surprise to me, other than letting Musk seize the payments system. I gotta admit, that one surprised me.
The jury is still out for me on the current response ā but I absolutely respect those who are not satisfied ā but the level of darkness imposed by Trump has even slightly, although not by much, exceeded my expectations. Hang in there. As Joyce Vance says, we're all in this together.
My only hope is that some, hopefully many, Trump voters have seen where this was all leading, i.e. not in their favor, and have changed their minds.
Even if they do, itās too little too late. Trump & Co believe they can ensure there are no further elections, so they donāt give a whit what MAGA thinks now. We have to fight tooth and nail, to prevent it.
MAGA " I voted for trump - now Musk has stolen my SS! What are the Democrats going to do about it? Help!"
What would Biden have arrested Trump for? Wouldnāt he had to have committed a crime first?
Pick one.
real life is not an episode of Law and Order
In real life, Biden had full immunity to do whatever the hell he wanted to, per SCOTUS.
No he didn't, if he tried to do that you can get your ass SCOTUS would've said "nuh uh" as the way they worded their decision was that THEY get to decide what constitutes an "official act".
from what i've heard Musk has read-only access but he can't control the money itself.
Doesnāt matter he shouldnāt be in there
They can take pictures of classified documents, etc; with their cell phones.
Heard where? We don't do "from what I've heard" here. Who said? Based on what info? And where did the info come from? I hope to heck you are right, but I need to know where that came from. Otherwise it's just like FB.
it was mentioned here: https://robertinventor.substack.com/p/doge-is-just-doing-a-rather-heavy
He cared more about doing the bidding of Fiend yahu than preserving our country.
Someone who worked for the government said he would've been far more worried if the GOP tried to do this slowly over the course of several years, trying to do this all at once so quickly only makes it more likely it'll backfire on them big time.
Geoff, not giving up your agency and power is the best way to escape apathy and hopelessness. Here are some thoughts.
https://open.substack.com/pub/chrisberrie/p/wth-is-going-on-2225?r=ap54k&utm_medium=ios
This is a privilege with some of us just don't have. Fuck optimism. We need realism right now and action. Those of us who would lose everything including their lives it's this shit gets worse optimism isn't what we fn need!
We rely on our government and the legal system to do what is right to stop this man. I can do nothing while laying here. And that's all I can do. Send a few messages letters. That's not what we need.
realism isn't the same thing as just giving up saying "welp we're fucked now", that's not a "luxury" it's common sense. MAGA wants you to despair and be hopeless, I for one refuse to give in and play their little game.
Realism for some of us who are bed bound and rely on government services that we paid into to survive IS potentially eventually actually giving up.
Now don't get me wrong I'm sending letters I'm speaking up I'm sharing things. But I can only do so much from this bed. And everything I do affects my health drastically even commenting back to you.
And the only place I go is with my wheelchair with non-emergency medical transport where I have to be reclined and nearly laying. That is provided by Medicare and Medicaid and only to medical appointments.
The care I get is from caregivers who are provided by Medicaid. So you're privilege to even write that to me is showing how clueless people are for the situation that some of us are in.
If that shit really hits the fan and we lose social security and Medicare and Medicaid and snap some of us are dying.
That doesn't mean we're not fighting. You don't have a clue how much some of us fight each day just to survive and just to try to get the truth out. Then maybe do a little bit to try to make an impact.
But ultimately for those of us who rely on these systems that are tax dollars paid into to survive will die without them. So think a lot deeper about your privilege before you comment.
Oh I do "have a clue" as i'm on Medicaid myself, i'm saying that making statements like "fuck optimism" is only helping the GOP and not accomplishing anything.
It's got nothing to do with "privilege" it's about reality and Rubio has contradicted Muskrat's claims already about USAID so I don't expect him to do anything to SS or Medicare and Medicaid either(if only because a lot of the GOP's base relies on them and heads would roll if they actually tried to get rid of them for good).
Our"
If that's what you can do, then do it, and do it with a sense of triumph. I am limited in what I can do too. It's frustrating. So part of the mission I set myself was to remind everyone who feels despair that we are not alone in what we are doing.
We need your letters, and you are the only one who can write them. All our letters, all our phone calls, each tiny thing we do, all together matter. I love attending group meetings by Indivisible and Markers and others, the ones where we are all on Zoom and seeing each other's faces. Some are very active, some are like me, some are like you, and we're together, part of the resistance. Seeing those faces on that screen is exhilarating and joyful, something I need to see and share.
Don't let the bastard's get you down.
We have to rely on State Attorney Generals and State and Federal Civil Courts for legal action. The responsible Trump administration officials and special employees (guess who) should be named in the lawsuits along with the government.
Ok, but by the time any of that happens, the damage will be done, and Musk will be beyond prosecution (or pardoned by Trump).
The courts aren't going to save us. They may be able to mop up the mess, but not before the fabric of the social contract and government is torn to shreds.
To quote the great Fats Waller, āOne Never Knows, Do One?ā, we canāt assume that all is lost. You enter the fray, use the best tools at your disposal and hope for lucky breaks. Given Trump and companyās history of in-fighting, over reaching etc I think that resistance can be effective.
Same
Sorry, but "it was my day off" is a pitiful excuse for journalists and legislators. South Koreans rushed to open Parliament in the middle of the night
Many independent journalists were hot on it yesterday. I have paid subscriptions to at least a dozen on Substack. As soon as they sounded the alarm, I started emailing my elected officials at all levels, federal, state and local. Today, I filed a complaint with my Governor and AG about Muskās illegal activities.
Iād add Phyllis Fong - USDA inspector general that refused her unlawful removal and had to be escorted out
Jay, I guess I am missing something here. Does the simple act of Trump telling Musk it's OK to break into a federal building make it legal? Then break into secure data files on federal employees, Medicare recipients, and many others is OK too?
No it does not. He still has to follow basic rules on access and confidentiality, for example.
This is my sincere question too. I'm not asking just to vent, but genuinely asking for Jay or others with legal expertise to answer: Can't the police arrest *anyone* who breaks into protected US government computer systems? If Musk and his staff are openly defying the "basic rules on access and confidentiality" as you say, why are they not under arrest? Why do we have to wait for lawsuits and being held in contempt of court?
If someone walked into my house and stole my belongings and bragged about it on social media, wouldn't the police be able to make an arrest, without me having to go through a lengthy lawsuit process first?
Same questions here. How would this work, Jay?
Same Jay. I donāt understand how they can do this.
I would think that if it was local law enforcement who had probable cause to believe that a crime had been committed that they could make arrests.
But, since weāre dealing with a federal crime and in a federal building the feds would have the case.
I have the same question. It is remarkable and terrifying how vulnerable those data files have proven to be.
This is my question as well. Illegal actions are being taken by someone who has no authority to do anything. Unconstitutional acts are being taken by trump. Why is there no path to arrest and remove? Why wait for lawsuits that might not work or be dismissed and let them destroy the country in the meantime?
Same question as all the rest. Action for the illegal actions they are taking is what I expect. Not social media posts and press conferences and letters and notes. Arrest them now! Stop with this weakness!
Legal or not, it's been done. Illegality doesn't matter anymore. Who's going to say no to the richest man in the world who has the backing of the president? What government entity is going to march in and arrest Elon Musk, actually lay hands on him, handcuff him, and frogmarch him out of the Eisenhower Office Building? Or even persuade him to stop? He's doing what Dumpy wants him to do, and Dumpy's minions now control the FBI and the DoJ. Mayor Bowser and the DC PD? I don't think telling him, "Hey, Mr. Musk, what you're doing is illegal! Stop in the name of the law!" Even if there's a judge out there who rules our way on the lawsuits, who is going to walk into a building and make Elon Musk stop?
Why not? What protections does he have in his āpositionā in a ādepartmentā that was pulled out of a hat and is not on anyoneās rolodex? Itās generalized fear I think. Since this unelected co-clown has hit the spotlight, Iāve wondered what happens to the ego when you can Literally buy your way in and out of ANYTHING. Heck. You could even buy a country. If you wanted.
Oh, wait ā¦
Another thing that bothers me lots ā¦ if youāre so inclined ā¦ look up Starlink and focus on their clientele, their reach, and ask whatās stopping him from turning of the lights off if heās a mind to. Heās a friggen loose cannon. Jumping with glee that he gets to seriously cosplay a Whitehouse position. Why isnāt that illegal?
A lot of the problems come down to the fact that our constitution is an old relic and badly needs an overhaul. But people whoāve come and gone canāt even agree to the wall paint color. Constitutional examination and overhaul would be impossible. But here we stand, with no way to mobilize against the reality that, as it stands, the Constitution too frequently has zero effect in dealing with modern realities.
I agree with you on everything but your last paragraph. In my view, the Constitution works when people respect both its content and its intent.
But we have to look for the problem that originates in our own society, which is built on a myth of individualism and the possibility of accumulation of wealth by any means possible. We have failed to respect the guardrails that go with capitalism as we have designed it, around the assumption of class differences. Yes, that old thing again.
The writers of our Constitution recognized the dangers and tried to create a system that would allow us to grow into it. Yes, the Constitution is imperfect, but over time we have used the built in mechanism it created to correct it when needed and to add to it as our sense of democracy grew.
We failed the Constitution, not the other way round, by allowing a distorted kind of capitalist economy to become dominant, controlled by a few people whose main interest was creating a class system that served them. The irony is that at the same time, there have always been creative, insightful, dedicated people working on other ways to seeing the world and how we live in it.
Too many of us allow the chaos to drive how we think and do things, instead of turning to and using the techniques that can create meaningful protection of democracy and our freedom to make our personal choices without interference.
I hear you. But I think both ādirectionsā apply. People need to develop a respect thats been lost. But to effectively engage people into that awareness, we have to know more about why they wonāt engage. What has chased people away from it? Some of that is certainly education. But I think a clear example that illustrates what Iām talking about are that Black people, constitutionally, should be able to count on being stopped for a legitimate traffic violation without fear of being shot for same. Another example is that the parents of SandyHook babies, and shooting victims everywhere, should be able to have the 2nd amendment re-codified to reflect that the framers made gun laws based on ideas of militia involvement ā with guns that took, what, at least a minute, to reload? They could not have foreseen todayās works on such matters. They also included next to nothing on the problems we are faced with now: a crook as president who wants to be king. And is āhiringā his ācourtā.
Not to mention the disastrous Supreme Court rulings that paved the way for this to happen .
That's also been my question all weekend! Why haven't they been removed from the building? If I had walked in there and done what Musk's minions have done, wouldn't I have been escorted out or arrested? Those young men have no more security clearances than I do.
Who would escort them out? Trump & Musk control the government now.
I have zero expertise in this stuff but according to this https://www.rockthevote.org/explainers/law-enforcement-in-washington-d-c/ the appropriate law enforcement agency might be FPS:
"The Federal Protective Services (FPS) is the uniformed police division of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. They protect the physical buildings and property of the federal government, including the Capitol building."
Is it worth calling them? Their website asks the public "Have you seen something suspicious within a federal building?"
https://www.dhs.gov/report-suspicious-activity-federal-protective-service
The FPS reports to the Secretary of Homeland Security, who then reports to the President. Do you really think newly sworn in Kristi Noem is going to approve the arrest of Musk? In South Dakota she claimed that Mexican drug cartels were rampant on reservations, and that tribal leaders were profiting over parenting children. She is banned from entering onto any tribal land there currently. There really are no guardrails now.
Yes, they control the Dept of Justice, who I believe supervises the U.S. Marshals Office, the folks who would carry out an arrest warrant on behalf of the Amercian people. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
A civil servant who knows their obligation to refuse to comply with an illegal order.
Yes, why were they not stopped?
And I say again -- Why isn't Musk's illegal accessing of confidential financial records of millions of people both a crime AND a class action civil suit? The blue state attorney generals should make a case for the class action claim and assess $100s of millions in damage payments to Musk on behalf of all of the citizens with financial records in the system. Especially since I suspect that they took the information out of the Treasury building on the hard drives and other devices they took into the building.
I wrote to my California attorney general yesterday and posted the text of my message on Joyce Vance's Substack. Many people responded and said they would do the same for theirs. Here it is:
Dear AG Bonta,
As you know, Elon Musk, a private citizen with no standing in the federal government, has unlawfully taken possession of a highly sensitive US government computer that holds confidential information on American citizens and the payments made to us through government programs. This move is illegal and must be stopped. Please use every tool at your disposal to protect us and punish Musk, Trump, Bessent, and the others responsible for this horrendous breach of our privacy and theft of our personal information.
Thank you.
Thank you, Paula. I am using your script (with minor changes). I'm not a paid subscriber to Joyce Vance's Substack. I'm glad I can thank you here!
Thank you, Theodora!!!
Well mine was not as professional as yours but done anyway. Idk if I even used the right contact form but whatever.
Slick is not a requirement. And sometimes just a simple statement catches what needs to be said more clearly. The fact that you did it is what matters most. Thank you.
Class Action Lawsuit! Biggest data breach ever! Who is leading this effort?
Paula, look at this! There is already a suit brought by two federal employees!!!
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3812509/us-government-sued-after-mass-emails-to-federal-workforce-allegedly-sent-from-insecure-server.html
My thinking as well. A massive class action lawsuit on behalf of the American people.
Notably missing from your Dem politico list is Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffreys - the latter always willing to "work with" li'l Mikey Johnson in a - *cough-cough* - " bipartisan manner". Schumer made some really stupid comments this weekend to the effect that the Dems "won't oppose everything" tRumpy, but will "lay on the tracks" to stop exceptionally bad policies...Chuck, you already are on "the tracks", and the tRump train has turned you and your party into boeuf tartare..."lay on the tracks" - lol!
There should be ZERO working with Republicans until Musk is out, Civil Rights returns to Justice, and Trump impeachment underway - emoluments clause for the Meme Coins purchased by "whales", likely is a great place to begin, as if other unconstitutional acts aren't obvious
Didnāt he also just add another book for sale to his list of grifts?
Iāve been leaving messages for Chuck Schumer about him being a WIMPā¦ He pushed through that Laken Riley thing because he wanted it expedited ..that is criminal
A group of democrats marched down to the USAID offices this afternoon, this is the action we need. It shines a big spotlight on the situation that not ever our complacent media can ignore.
Yes. We are finding that Rep and Dem voicemails in state and DC offices are garbled and inaudible.
One specific story about my Congresswoman Foushee. And I am sharing this here and there so maybe she will follow through:
Today I spoke to legislative aide Sarah. As with Hunter/Sammy in the office, she has an š sense of humor. When I asked her if her name was with an H or A. She said H, 'for that is the correct way'.
She also took very seriously my suggestion (which I believe one of you posed) to conduct a town hall. Sarah said that is an excellent idea and she will immediately relay that to the communications director and their team.
Senators Merkley & Hoyle of Oregon spent the weekend holding several town halls across the state. Hundreds of people attended. Their main message was to fight back. Complain loudly.
Just to clarify, Val Hoyle is our US Representative. Jeff Merkley and Ron Wyden are our Senators and theyāre both doing a great job!
I was born and grew up in Oregon. I still keep track of what's going on there. Vermont has a fine Congressional team who are on the same wavelength as Oregon's but I still kind of feel like the folks in Oregon represent me. I'm a homesick westerner, and miss all you.
Excellent
I should say I cut and pasted from a different forum so the townhall idea came from elsewhere.
So I'm not the only one who got garbled messages when I tried to call my Senators' DC offices?
Jess Craven said it was flooding the lines. I'm not sure.
That could be part of it, but there was also a major sunspot eruption (like HUGE) that disrupted some kinds of communications over a large part of the earth yesterday and may erupt again this week. Sorry, afflicted with nerdism here. These things jump our at me. Just thought this one might help understand why garbled phone stuff, cause they use frequencies near those that are usually affected.
Musk is an interloper in the US government who DOES NOT BELONG THERE. He should be deported with alacrity. He is functioning like Joseph McCarty, a fanatic attempting to weed out people who don't fit his, Musk's, definition of whatever "standards" he is trying to enforce.
Regarding our politicians: āAnd the more experienced among them donāt waste political capital on performative stunts that donāt actually fix anything.ā What would these performative stunts be? Denying a quorum to slow the Senate process?Blocking unanimous consent to kill fast-track confirmations? These arenāt performative actions. Theyāre the rules by which the Senate operates. Play by the rules but slow the process down to allow public attention to focus on what exactly is happening.
Yes, that is how the minority party operates to gain time and leverage.
Thanks, Jay. There is much more to do. Many of the phone lines today were garbled or inactive. I'm grateful for your messaging and clarity and for those in the government who are taking an active stance. These evening and weekend "raids" must be stopped.
Interesting. I tried to contact my republican senator, ron johnson*, today. When I called the Hart office I got never-ending Muzak. When I called his state office, the voice mail was completely garbled. I finally emailed him.
*My passive aggressive response to fascists is to never capitalize their names. I'm sure we'll all reap the benefits any day now! /s
Same garbled voicemail for senator duckworth
Same for Tim Kaine (VA senator)ās phone lines - I tried his DC office and a couple regional offices this morning and the message was all staticky and slowed down. I tried leaving a voicemail but it didnāt work. For Mark Warnerās office (my other senator) the greeting was normal, but I waited on hold forever and when I tried to leave a message I got disconnected.