There is a silver lining. A majority of the GOP caucus did not go along with Trump's endorsement of Jordan. Trump gambled with that endorsement and lost. If over half the GOP caucus feels that they don't have to take their marching orders from him anymore, it's a problem for Trump.
I dealt with Jordan years ago when he was in the Ohio Senate. He is not a pleasant person, even on his good days. Hard to imagine that he could get to 217 if Scalise can't.
The egocentric dysfunction inside the GOP continues, at the expense of the country. What's it gonna take for their constituents to see the dangerous precipice these extremists are taking us?
I always love it when the "moderates" say they fear MAGA primary challenges. In reality they are only "moderate" because they are in a toss up or blue district; what they should be fearing is a solid Democratic challenger. In reality I don't see a speaker being elected this week or possibly even next week; unless someone puts a BOSE up for speaker.
You always see comments by long time Republicans that "both sides are the same." Easy catchphrase, but hasn't been true for a long time. The extreme right wing fringe of the GOP steers the ship. The extreme left wing fringe of the Democratic party is practically invisible. Does anyone think Tlaib, Ihan or AOC have a significant impact on policy?
The NYT, in the person of Nate Cohn, wrote today almost approvingly of the "new Trumpist wave" of Repubs in the House that is consolidating around people like Gym Jordan and his ilk, and what seems as "GOP in disarray" fodder is merely the death gasps of the old Repub "establishment", now on its way out. In the Senate, there are the truly awful Hillbilly, Hawley, and Ted "Tail-gunner" Cruz doing their best to cut down the increasingly enfeebled Turtle, and the remnants of "responsible conservatism", whatever. Cohn is trying to say in a nice way that revolutions are messy, and that MAGA-ism is a long way from fading away.
Well, here's the challenge for us voters...let's reverse that and accelerate their departure by returning the Congress to if not more progressive people, at least more sane. Hate to see Cohn's "Trumpist" projections actually bear fruit...egad!
The one thing I see as a stumbling block for the trumpist wave is that they can't accomplish anything. Sooner or later their voters are going to get clued into that fact when they need help and can't get it. The problem is that might take too long for the penny to drop.
House Republicans are so bitterly divided it's likely neither Scalise nor Jordan, nor anyone else, will have 217 Republican votes to become Speaker. What happens next is crucial. It's imperative that we not allow the People's House to remain broken and dysfunctional until 2025.
House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY) realizes this as well. That's why last Friday in the Washington Post he explicitly called for Republicans to enter into a bipartisan governing coalition. His plea is elegant and gracious, and everyone should read it:
In his piece, Mr. Jeffries tells us that his team has repeatedly made this offer to Republicans in private over the last few weeks. That he now has publicly made the same offer suggests that he's asking the American people to support it as well. In his words:
"At this point, we simply need Republican partners willing to break with MAGA extremism, reform the highly partisan House rules that were adopted at the beginning of this Congress and join us in finding common ground for the people.”
At least a few of these potential Republican partners have the training, experience and skills to lead in taking that bold step. But they need to have their courage bolstered if they are to break with MAGA extremism.
For those who'd like to help instead of just opining in the comment section and waiting to see what happens, let me suggest calling one or each of these Representatives and urge them to either run themself as a consensus candidate, or to support one of the others to do so.
Don Bacon (R-NE): (202) 225-4155 D.C. or (402) 938-0300 District
Brian Fitzpatrick (R-PA): (202) 225-4276 D.C. or (215) 579-8102 District
Mike Gallagher (R-WI): (202) 225-5665 D.C. or (920) 301-4500 District
David Joyce (R- OH): (202) 225-5731 D.C. or (440) 352-3939 District
I like your post but I don't think calling reps is going to change a thing unless you are one of their voters. They don't care what the world thinks. And often their districts are ruby red by design.
But if they want to do the right thing, voting for Jeffries for speaker would start on a road to normalcy. The question is if anyone in the Republican party wants normal again. I'm not sure that they do.
I totally understand, Margaret. But the reason we're calling these four particular Representatives is that three of the four of them are in districts not ruby red. And MAGA extremists are not a dominant force in any of them.
More importantly, all are "traditional Republicans", the ones whom Mr. Jeffries has been reaching out to. All are committed to the institution of the House of Representatives, which is what our network believes must be protected and defended as it's under assault by MAGA extremists.
What we're trying to do today is not change someone's mind, but rather help to create an atmosphere of cooperation. In that regard, the next Speaker has to be a Republican for two reasons:
1) We're trying to defend the integrity of the institution. In the House of Representatives, all tradition and history demands that the party with a majority of members holds the Speakership. That must be honored if we are to protect the House as it has functioned throughout our history.
2) Republicans would see any attempt to make Mr. Jeffries the Speaker as a power grab, not a sincere effort at building a bipartisan coalition. The only way to get more than just a few Republican votes, is if in the end the Speakership remains in Republican hands.
Again, I'm as disgusted as anyone with the failure of Republicans to disavow those who would destroy our democratic republic. But at this moment, the evening of October 12, 2023, if we can do something to help Hakeem Jeffries succeed at the task he has assigned himself, I for one will do this, rather than doing nothing.
I'm just not sure that there is a consensus candidate. Would be nice if there was one though.
I just saw a tiktok of John Cena - he could be their consensus candidate! He wouldn't take any guff from the chaos caucus and they would be scared of him while he's incredibly charming! 😄 Normally, I think non government types should stay out of politics, but maybe this is not a normal time.
A reminder that the burn it down crazy fascist caucus has always been the no government caucus. They wanted the shutdown and always push for a shutdown, using spending as the excuse. Now they have their shutdown. So what motivates them to find a speaker? It’s not like they have an agenda to move.
Second reminder; there are 2 of these fascist party members who are very motivated to keep government and the House shut down. Gaetz and Santos both are rumored headed to floor votes to expel them from Congress. With no Speaker, there is no ethics committee action to facilitate a verdict and a motion or vote to expel.
As far as Santos, that is about to be the very least of his worries. No need to expel him if he's gonna be perp-walked out to begin his prison sentence. Short-eyes Gaetz, however, may be right to worry.
A group of former Ohio State University wrestlers who were abused by Dr. Richard Strauss recently started lobbying against Jordan. Legal efforts to hold OSU accountable for what happened to those men are ongoing, and Jordan's probably going to be deposed for at least one of the lawsuits. Based on what is already known, Jordan looks really bad. Those lawsuits eventually going to trial will probably make him look even worse.
If Jordan were to have emerged as the candidate for Speaker, what he failed to do as an assistant coach at Ohio State, and has lied about ever since, immediately becomes a national story for the first time since 2018...when the issue may have cost him the chance to succeed Paul Ryan. Current GOP Reps. are only going to go so far out on a limb for Trump. IMO, the potential political cost at home for voting for Jim Jordan is a step too far for most of them.
I am glad to hear this. I personally expect that once Trump is convicted for January 6, whichever charge sticks, the DOJ's battleship turret will swing towards Jordan as well.
We have people who have been elected to Congress who are not doing their jobs. They should have their pay docked for every day that this idiocy continues. There needs to be immediate consequences for their actions. I wish there was a way to make this happen.
If the non-bombthrowers in the GOP are willing, the House may still be able to operate with Speaker Pro Tempore Patrick McHenry.
McHenry's authority is govered by House Rule 1, Clause 8(b)(3), which only dates back to 2003. In part, the rule says: “In the case of a vacancy in the Office of Speaker, the next Member on the list described in subdivision (B) shall act as Speaker pro tempore until the election of a Speaker or a Speaker pro tempore. Pending such election the Member acting as Speaker pro tempore may exercise such authorities of the Office of Speaker as may be necessary and appropriate to that end.”
In the past 20 years, it's been assumed that the Speaker Pro Tempore's power is limited to presiding over the election of a new Speaker. Recently, Rep. Jim McGovern (D-MA) uncovered a 2004 Rules Committee description of the rule that supports this assumption. However, that doesn't need to be the final word on this. Matt Glassman, a senior fellow at Georgetown University's Government Affairs Institute has made a persuasive argument that McHenry's already been permitted to exceed his authority without objection. He did so when he ordered Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer to vacate their "hideaway" offices. That action was clearly not related to the election of a new Speaker.
IMO the majority of the House Republican caucus does have a potential way out of this mess, if they want to take it.
The purple moderates have more to fear from the MAGA than being primaried. It isn’t unreasonable to worry about having their homes attacked by Trump’s personal militia.
While very true, those are the voters they made. They could have spoken out about the growing violence and demonization that had been growing in the party (started in the 70's and 80's so it's been happening for a long time.) But as long as they were winning they were not only fine with it but amped it up. It's a bit of being hoisted by one's own petard. And a little of the poem about not standing up for anyone and having no one to stand for you when they came for you.
I get that the so-called moderate GOP's are afraid of being primaried if they defy the maga's, but I don't get why the ones in swing districts/states aren't even more afraid that if they allow the absurdity in their party to continue, rather than reach across the isle, they are not likely to be re-elected anyway?
Because ALL Repugs are coerced to sign a “loyalty pledge” to vote as a block--if they don’t, they get sidelined and their money dries up. The RNC literally operates as an organized crime syndicate--the Fascist Billionaires of the Koch Gang install their puppets. There isn’t a Repug politician left who hasn’t sold his vote before ever stepping into office.
RE: "Many on the far right see Scalise as another continuation of the just toppled leadership."
What I don't understand is why they think they are entitled to the Speaker of their choice. Although it's true that the Republican caucus has become much Trumpier over the last couple years, the far right still is a distinct minority. If the rest of the Republicans weren't so utterly spineless, maybe they could get the Speaker they want, even if it meant begging Jeffries for a few votes as part of some other deal. Gawd, these people are dumb.
The M.O. rests in the word, “entitled.” The Great Whine of the Repug party is a rallying cry, a message of Poor, Pitiful Me. By painting themselves as “victims” they justify their victimization of others. It’s classic sociopathy and a way to incite gangs and bullies. The messaging of the RNC Propaganda machine has honed this since the 80’s--weaponized propaganda and unleashing self-righteous indignation, armed to teeth with assault rifles. All of this is part of the master plan of fascist billionaires organized under Charles Koch and Leonard Leo, among others. Read “The Shock Doctrine.” This is how you wipe out the middle class--promoting internecine violence.
Does this mean Chip Roy and friends are saying the Scalise election was rigged? Stolen?
And, re Santos’s statement that, “ I’m now declaring I’m an ANYONE but Scalise.” At least he knows his name is not Scalise and is, in fact “Anyone But.”
There is a silver lining. A majority of the GOP caucus did not go along with Trump's endorsement of Jordan. Trump gambled with that endorsement and lost. If over half the GOP caucus feels that they don't have to take their marching orders from him anymore, it's a problem for Trump.
Jordan could still come back, it seems, if Scalise bows out.
I dealt with Jordan years ago when he was in the Ohio Senate. He is not a pleasant person, even on his good days. Hard to imagine that he could get to 217 if Scalise can't.
Which he has now done.
My thoughts to a letter.
The egocentric dysfunction inside the GOP continues, at the expense of the country. What's it gonna take for their constituents to see the dangerous precipice these extremists are taking us?
VOTE. THEM. OUT.
And vote them out!!
I always love it when the "moderates" say they fear MAGA primary challenges. In reality they are only "moderate" because they are in a toss up or blue district; what they should be fearing is a solid Democratic challenger. In reality I don't see a speaker being elected this week or possibly even next week; unless someone puts a BOSE up for speaker.
A Bose would probably make a better speaker than the two up for the job. At least you could up the volume to drown out the chaos caucus.
What's a BOSE?
They make very good speakers - audio speakers.
Oh! I get it now... Just a bit slow on the uptake. Thanks for the explanation.
I was right there with you, LC!
You always see comments by long time Republicans that "both sides are the same." Easy catchphrase, but hasn't been true for a long time. The extreme right wing fringe of the GOP steers the ship. The extreme left wing fringe of the Democratic party is practically invisible. Does anyone think Tlaib, Ihan or AOC have a significant impact on policy?
That is a false argument; overgeneralization or a “bandwagon fallacy.”
The NYT, in the person of Nate Cohn, wrote today almost approvingly of the "new Trumpist wave" of Repubs in the House that is consolidating around people like Gym Jordan and his ilk, and what seems as "GOP in disarray" fodder is merely the death gasps of the old Repub "establishment", now on its way out. In the Senate, there are the truly awful Hillbilly, Hawley, and Ted "Tail-gunner" Cruz doing their best to cut down the increasingly enfeebled Turtle, and the remnants of "responsible conservatism", whatever. Cohn is trying to say in a nice way that revolutions are messy, and that MAGA-ism is a long way from fading away.
Well, here's the challenge for us voters...let's reverse that and accelerate their departure by returning the Congress to if not more progressive people, at least more sane. Hate to see Cohn's "Trumpist" projections actually bear fruit...egad!
It was a good piece by Cohn, yes.
The one thing I see as a stumbling block for the trumpist wave is that they can't accomplish anything. Sooner or later their voters are going to get clued into that fact when they need help and can't get it. The problem is that might take too long for the penny to drop.
What is needed is a platoon of rapid response kindergarten teachers to be deployed ASAP.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
House Republicans are so bitterly divided it's likely neither Scalise nor Jordan, nor anyone else, will have 217 Republican votes to become Speaker. What happens next is crucial. It's imperative that we not allow the People's House to remain broken and dysfunctional until 2025.
House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY) realizes this as well. That's why last Friday in the Washington Post he explicitly called for Republicans to enter into a bipartisan governing coalition. His plea is elegant and gracious, and everyone should read it:
https://wapo.st/48DDrsB (no subscription required to read this item)
In his piece, Mr. Jeffries tells us that his team has repeatedly made this offer to Republicans in private over the last few weeks. That he now has publicly made the same offer suggests that he's asking the American people to support it as well. In his words:
"At this point, we simply need Republican partners willing to break with MAGA extremism, reform the highly partisan House rules that were adopted at the beginning of this Congress and join us in finding common ground for the people.”
At least a few of these potential Republican partners have the training, experience and skills to lead in taking that bold step. But they need to have their courage bolstered if they are to break with MAGA extremism.
For those who'd like to help instead of just opining in the comment section and waiting to see what happens, let me suggest calling one or each of these Representatives and urge them to either run themself as a consensus candidate, or to support one of the others to do so.
Don Bacon (R-NE): (202) 225-4155 D.C. or (402) 938-0300 District
Brian Fitzpatrick (R-PA): (202) 225-4276 D.C. or (215) 579-8102 District
Mike Gallagher (R-WI): (202) 225-5665 D.C. or (920) 301-4500 District
David Joyce (R- OH): (202) 225-5731 D.C. or (440) 352-3939 District
You can learn a little more about each one here:
https://jerryweiss.substack.com/p/if-mccarthys-out-whos-in
.
I like your post but I don't think calling reps is going to change a thing unless you are one of their voters. They don't care what the world thinks. And often their districts are ruby red by design.
But if they want to do the right thing, voting for Jeffries for speaker would start on a road to normalcy. The question is if anyone in the Republican party wants normal again. I'm not sure that they do.
I totally understand, Margaret. But the reason we're calling these four particular Representatives is that three of the four of them are in districts not ruby red. And MAGA extremists are not a dominant force in any of them.
More importantly, all are "traditional Republicans", the ones whom Mr. Jeffries has been reaching out to. All are committed to the institution of the House of Representatives, which is what our network believes must be protected and defended as it's under assault by MAGA extremists.
What we're trying to do today is not change someone's mind, but rather help to create an atmosphere of cooperation. In that regard, the next Speaker has to be a Republican for two reasons:
1) We're trying to defend the integrity of the institution. In the House of Representatives, all tradition and history demands that the party with a majority of members holds the Speakership. That must be honored if we are to protect the House as it has functioned throughout our history.
2) Republicans would see any attempt to make Mr. Jeffries the Speaker as a power grab, not a sincere effort at building a bipartisan coalition. The only way to get more than just a few Republican votes, is if in the end the Speakership remains in Republican hands.
Again, I'm as disgusted as anyone with the failure of Republicans to disavow those who would destroy our democratic republic. But at this moment, the evening of October 12, 2023, if we can do something to help Hakeem Jeffries succeed at the task he has assigned himself, I for one will do this, rather than doing nothing.
.
I'm just not sure that there is a consensus candidate. Would be nice if there was one though.
I just saw a tiktok of John Cena - he could be their consensus candidate! He wouldn't take any guff from the chaos caucus and they would be scared of him while he's incredibly charming! 😄 Normally, I think non government types should stay out of politics, but maybe this is not a normal time.
A reminder that the burn it down crazy fascist caucus has always been the no government caucus. They wanted the shutdown and always push for a shutdown, using spending as the excuse. Now they have their shutdown. So what motivates them to find a speaker? It’s not like they have an agenda to move.
Second reminder; there are 2 of these fascist party members who are very motivated to keep government and the House shut down. Gaetz and Santos both are rumored headed to floor votes to expel them from Congress. With no Speaker, there is no ethics committee action to facilitate a verdict and a motion or vote to expel.
As far as Santos, that is about to be the very least of his worries. No need to expel him if he's gonna be perp-walked out to begin his prison sentence. Short-eyes Gaetz, however, may be right to worry.
Daddy has always protected little Matty, I expect that to continue.
I was dead wrong! I was so sure they would rally behind Jordan, being drumpf’s pick!.
Obviously looking like twats is not an issue for the GOP.
A group of former Ohio State University wrestlers who were abused by Dr. Richard Strauss recently started lobbying against Jordan. Legal efforts to hold OSU accountable for what happened to those men are ongoing, and Jordan's probably going to be deposed for at least one of the lawsuits. Based on what is already known, Jordan looks really bad. Those lawsuits eventually going to trial will probably make him look even worse.
If Jordan were to have emerged as the candidate for Speaker, what he failed to do as an assistant coach at Ohio State, and has lied about ever since, immediately becomes a national story for the first time since 2018...when the issue may have cost him the chance to succeed Paul Ryan. Current GOP Reps. are only going to go so far out on a limb for Trump. IMO, the potential political cost at home for voting for Jim Jordan is a step too far for most of them.
I am glad to hear this. I personally expect that once Trump is convicted for January 6, whichever charge sticks, the DOJ's battleship turret will swing towards Jordan as well.
I wonder if he‘ll ignore the subpoena calling him in for a deposition?
Deposing Gymmy will lead to nothing. You will hear a lot of I don't recall, I didn't know, I wasn't there, etc.
Was that a typo or a naughty pun?
Until the extremists leggo their trollsplay, this is the House Republicans in all of their festering decay.
Also, George Santos is so bitchy, and not in any type of redeeming or endearing or excusable way, but more in a tone-deaf burlesque of the damned.
I love that "burlesque of the damned." That pretty much nails it!
We have people who have been elected to Congress who are not doing their jobs. They should have their pay docked for every day that this idiocy continues. There needs to be immediate consequences for their actions. I wish there was a way to make this happen.
There should be real accountability and methods to remedy negligence and malpractice, dereliction of duty and violation of oaths .
If the non-bombthrowers in the GOP are willing, the House may still be able to operate with Speaker Pro Tempore Patrick McHenry.
McHenry's authority is govered by House Rule 1, Clause 8(b)(3), which only dates back to 2003. In part, the rule says: “In the case of a vacancy in the Office of Speaker, the next Member on the list described in subdivision (B) shall act as Speaker pro tempore until the election of a Speaker or a Speaker pro tempore. Pending such election the Member acting as Speaker pro tempore may exercise such authorities of the Office of Speaker as may be necessary and appropriate to that end.”
In the past 20 years, it's been assumed that the Speaker Pro Tempore's power is limited to presiding over the election of a new Speaker. Recently, Rep. Jim McGovern (D-MA) uncovered a 2004 Rules Committee description of the rule that supports this assumption. However, that doesn't need to be the final word on this. Matt Glassman, a senior fellow at Georgetown University's Government Affairs Institute has made a persuasive argument that McHenry's already been permitted to exceed his authority without objection. He did so when he ordered Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer to vacate their "hideaway" offices. That action was clearly not related to the election of a new Speaker.
IMO the majority of the House Republican caucus does have a potential way out of this mess, if they want to take it.
https://wapo.st/46Kg9zh
Interesting
I wouldn't trust McHenry to do anything worthwhile when his first acts were to be petty about office space.
I did read that McCarthy was behind that move—appropriately petty for Little Kevvy
The purple moderates have more to fear from the MAGA than being primaried. It isn’t unreasonable to worry about having their homes attacked by Trump’s personal militia.
Scary times.
While very true, those are the voters they made. They could have spoken out about the growing violence and demonization that had been growing in the party (started in the 70's and 80's so it's been happening for a long time.) But as long as they were winning they were not only fine with it but amped it up. It's a bit of being hoisted by one's own petard. And a little of the poem about not standing up for anyone and having no one to stand for you when they came for you.
I get that the so-called moderate GOP's are afraid of being primaried if they defy the maga's, but I don't get why the ones in swing districts/states aren't even more afraid that if they allow the absurdity in their party to continue, rather than reach across the isle, they are not likely to be re-elected anyway?
Because ALL Repugs are coerced to sign a “loyalty pledge” to vote as a block--if they don’t, they get sidelined and their money dries up. The RNC literally operates as an organized crime syndicate--the Fascist Billionaires of the Koch Gang install their puppets. There isn’t a Repug politician left who hasn’t sold his vote before ever stepping into office.
ZERO integrity.
RE: "Many on the far right see Scalise as another continuation of the just toppled leadership."
What I don't understand is why they think they are entitled to the Speaker of their choice. Although it's true that the Republican caucus has become much Trumpier over the last couple years, the far right still is a distinct minority. If the rest of the Republicans weren't so utterly spineless, maybe they could get the Speaker they want, even if it meant begging Jeffries for a few votes as part of some other deal. Gawd, these people are dumb.
The M.O. rests in the word, “entitled.” The Great Whine of the Repug party is a rallying cry, a message of Poor, Pitiful Me. By painting themselves as “victims” they justify their victimization of others. It’s classic sociopathy and a way to incite gangs and bullies. The messaging of the RNC Propaganda machine has honed this since the 80’s--weaponized propaganda and unleashing self-righteous indignation, armed to teeth with assault rifles. All of this is part of the master plan of fascist billionaires organized under Charles Koch and Leonard Leo, among others. Read “The Shock Doctrine.” This is how you wipe out the middle class--promoting internecine violence.
They believe that they should get what they want no matter how few there are of them. It's as simple as that. It's troll behavior.
Two thoughts.
Does this mean Chip Roy and friends are saying the Scalise election was rigged? Stolen?
And, re Santos’s statement that, “ I’m now declaring I’m an ANYONE but Scalise.” At least he knows his name is not Scalise and is, in fact “Anyone But.”