This is such a valuable post Jay! Your explanations help us all to understand. Justice must prevail and these fascists need to be imprisoned! Go Jack Smith!
Traitorous ex-presidents should be imprisoned for life. Tangerine Palpatine’s conduct absolutely fits the definition of treason:
“treason
noun
1. The betrayal of allegiance toward one's own country, especially by committing hostile acts against it or aiding its enemies in committing such acts.
2. The betrayal of someone's trust or confidence.
3. The offense of attempting to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance, or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power; disloyalty; treachery.”
Under the case law, treason itself only occurs during a time of war. That's why so many of the cases use seditious conspiracy, which is similar to treason but does NOT have to be an act done during war.
yes indeed. Off the top of my head, I think the distinction is that treason allows the death penalty while seditious conspiracy doesn't. The stronger law is thus reserved for more dangerous act. But I haven't looked at the case law recently.
Clause 1 Meaning. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
So you don’t think his actions in instigating the January 6th attack on the Capitol were treason? His alignment with Putin, Kim Jong Un, Victor Orban aren’t adhering to enemies? His acceptance of ten million dollars from Egypt is okay?
If Trump was communicating with Putin while out of office, Putin was invading Ukraine AND Trump was insisting the Republicans in Congress not pass aid to Ukraine, i would certainly describe that as treasonous.
Still not sure he would be convicted of treason, because we are not “@ war” (has anyone “declared war”?) but if this information is confirmed that would be arguable.
Whether proven or not, no ally of the United States will (or should) ever trust Trump again. Nor should we.
I’ve been saying “A vote for Trump is a vote for President Vance.”
Should i say “a vote for trump is a vote for Putin.”?
Not “just” case law: the relevant definition is in the Constitution:
Article III Section 3 Treason
Clause 1 Meaning. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
Did somene ask something like if i didn’t think Trump’s actions were treasonous? I thought i saw that and wrote this reply, but can’t find the question. Maybe i dreamed it?
Of course Trump’s actions are abhorrent and fit the dictionary definition of treason.
As to the Constitutional definition. One could argue that “enemies” means people like putin, kim, orban, the media (as Trump has said) , etc. But i think you’d have trouble persuading many people of that with the opening “war” clause in the same sentence setting a context.
See Note from Susan about the case law being on this point.
Definition: sedition
: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority
Thank you, Jay-just thank you. I hope people hear this and it’s not just preaching to the choir. Tfg can not be elected-if so, we will have Vance ensconced behind the Resolute Desk in no time-forever. Democracy dead.
What about sitting members of Congress and people like Ginni Thomas? Will there be any indictments for them? If not, regardless of the outcome in this election, we still have these people in charge of things when they should be in jail, imo.
Very hard to nail the Congress folks, esp with Speech and debate immunity. And I haven’t seen Ginni do anything actually illegal, even if her involvement is unethical given Thomas’s non recusal.
There are members of congress who should be expelled: Jim Jordan, Scott Perry, Ted Cruz, Mike Johnson, possibly anyone who objected to a slate of electors, or even who voted against certification or attended meetings of the conspiracy.
Shocking how many of these people are lawyers.
Also Happy to see fraudulent electors being indicted for signing false oaths.
I know they were misled into thinking their slate was for a legal contingency, but it was only in Pennsylvania ithink, that they insisted on ua qualifying clause to that effect. (In several other states, individual orginal electors refused to be included on the fraudulent slates.)
Jay, I’d really like to thank Judge Chutkan for not postponing this trial just because of the election. And I’m counting on Jack Smith and his team to get the truth out there for everyone to see. Thanks for always keeping me informed and breaking it down so it’s easier for me to understand! Hope Riley is doing well 😊💖
Thank you very much for your insights and explanations. Your writing had instilled new hope that Trump may be held accountable for his actions and may suffer severe consequences for crimes he has committed.
Who knows... perhaps this IS exactly what they wanted: Trump out of the way, and immunity for a future R president to implement the Heritage Foundations dastardly plans?
Had SCOTUS released an expedited decision on Presidential Immunity #2, as requested by Jack in December '23, the trial date set for March '24 may have been met. The timing grievance lands squarely on the stained bench of SCOTUS, the equally reeking defendant and his stinkin' legal teams. *Updt, on a brighter note, Justice prevails in Colorado! Vote 💙 for more cases like this!
I find it pathetically humorous that the MAGA claims of “too close to an election!” are exactly and precisely because of Trump and his legal team’s attempt to delay as long as possible. Of course, they would have hoped to keep this information *out* of the public dialogue for at least 40 more days, but now they’ll just have to acknowledge that this “October surprise” is ALL their fault (which, of course, they never will…)
Thank you very much once again. This nation owes a debt of gratitude to Jack Smith.
There is delicious irony in the fact that it was Trump's own delaying tactics that placed the presentation of this evidence in front of the public in the last days of the election. Furthermore, Trump has made a standard practice of going to the court of public opinion to outflank the justice department. This evidence being presented to Justice Chutkan to rule upon is ending up performing precisely the same maneuver, but against him.
Jeff Tiedrich brought up something that has been on my mind since January 6. Mike Pence's Secret Service detail wanted to put him in a car and drive him away from the Capitol, a move that he steadfastly resisted so that he could be there for the certification. It was disseminated around Congress as the chaos mounted that Mike Pence would not be in attendance and that Chuck Grassley would oversee the certification process. I would really like to know what that was about, and if the two were related. Grassley might well have refused to certify the results, and then where would we be today?
I surely like this narrative better than yet another rambling and incoherent speech at a MAGA rally! The evil conspirator is back on the run, having been flushed out of his lair once again
Best post of the year, thanks, Jay.
Nice to see the slithery Steve Bannon finally named in a bigly way.
The Supreme Court has work to do! Time to update that immunity ruling. Back to work, corruption kings!
I’d like to see a road map to void any immunity! What will it take? Presidents aren’t kings. Damn oligarchs.
I meant, to be clear, I hope the last sentence in my comment is a joke. I know yours isn't, lol.
I hope that last sentence was a joke. I leave it to the legal beagles like Jay to focus on whether or not there's any realism to my paranoia.
This is such a valuable post Jay! Your explanations help us all to understand. Justice must prevail and these fascists need to be imprisoned! Go Jack Smith!
Traitorous ex-presidents should be imprisoned for life. Tangerine Palpatine’s conduct absolutely fits the definition of treason:
“treason
noun
1. The betrayal of allegiance toward one's own country, especially by committing hostile acts against it or aiding its enemies in committing such acts.
2. The betrayal of someone's trust or confidence.
3. The offense of attempting to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance, or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power; disloyalty; treachery.”
Under the case law, treason itself only occurs during a time of war. That's why so many of the cases use seditious conspiracy, which is similar to treason but does NOT have to be an act done during war.
He should be in prison either way.
yes indeed. Off the top of my head, I think the distinction is that treason allows the death penalty while seditious conspiracy doesn't. The stronger law is thus reserved for more dangerous act. But I haven't looked at the case law recently.
Not just case law. The Constitution
Article III Section 3 Treason
Clause 1 Meaning. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
So you don’t think his actions in instigating the January 6th attack on the Capitol were treason? His alignment with Putin, Kim Jong Un, Victor Orban aren’t adhering to enemies? His acceptance of ten million dollars from Egypt is okay?
If Trump was communicating with Putin while out of office, Putin was invading Ukraine AND Trump was insisting the Republicans in Congress not pass aid to Ukraine, i would certainly describe that as treasonous.
Still not sure he would be convicted of treason, because we are not “@ war” (has anyone “declared war”?) but if this information is confirmed that would be arguable.
Whether proven or not, no ally of the United States will (or should) ever trust Trump again. Nor should we.
I’ve been saying “A vote for Trump is a vote for President Vance.”
Should i say “a vote for trump is a vote for Putin.”?
Thanks for clearing that up for me Susan. I have been wondering why treason has not been applied in Trumps case.
Not “just” case law: the relevant definition is in the Constitution:
Article III Section 3 Treason
Clause 1 Meaning. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
Did somene ask something like if i didn’t think Trump’s actions were treasonous? I thought i saw that and wrote this reply, but can’t find the question. Maybe i dreamed it?
Of course Trump’s actions are abhorrent and fit the dictionary definition of treason.
As to the Constitutional definition. One could argue that “enemies” means people like putin, kim, orban, the media (as Trump has said) , etc. But i think you’d have trouble persuading many people of that with the opening “war” clause in the same sentence setting a context.
See Note from Susan about the case law being on this point.
Definition: sedition
: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority
Webster’s Collegiate
That too.
Ask me if i think Trump should spend the rest of his life in jail. I do!
A 15 or 20 year sentence without possibility of parole would do fine.
Taking $10M from Egypr is arguably accepting a bribe which is, of course, illegal, but is not by itself treasonous.
yes. I think the case law involved whether the “or” meant the Enemies could be other than in the context of war, and the court said nope.
Thanks for that information!
Put me on that jury!
Tangerine Palpatine 😂😂😂😂😂
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🤣🤣🤣👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
110%!!!!!!!
Thank you, Jay-just thank you. I hope people hear this and it’s not just preaching to the choir. Tfg can not be elected-if so, we will have Vance ensconced behind the Resolute Desk in no time-forever. Democracy dead.
Share this widely.
What about sitting members of Congress and people like Ginni Thomas? Will there be any indictments for them? If not, regardless of the outcome in this election, we still have these people in charge of things when they should be in jail, imo.
Very hard to nail the Congress folks, esp with Speech and debate immunity. And I haven’t seen Ginni do anything actually illegal, even if her involvement is unethical given Thomas’s non recusal.
There are members of congress who should be expelled: Jim Jordan, Scott Perry, Ted Cruz, Mike Johnson, possibly anyone who objected to a slate of electors, or even who voted against certification or attended meetings of the conspiracy.
Shocking how many of these people are lawyers.
Also Happy to see fraudulent electors being indicted for signing false oaths.
I know they were misled into thinking their slate was for a legal contingency, but it was only in Pennsylvania ithink, that they insisted on ua qualifying clause to that effect. (In several other states, individual orginal electors refused to be included on the fraudulent slates.)
Jay, I’d really like to thank Judge Chutkan for not postponing this trial just because of the election. And I’m counting on Jack Smith and his team to get the truth out there for everyone to see. Thanks for always keeping me informed and breaking it down so it’s easier for me to understand! Hope Riley is doing well 😊💖
Thank you very much for your insights and explanations. Your writing had instilled new hope that Trump may be held accountable for his actions and may suffer severe consequences for crimes he has committed.
I don't think this what the right wingers on the SC had in mind.
Who knows... perhaps this IS exactly what they wanted: Trump out of the way, and immunity for a future R president to implement the Heritage Foundations dastardly plans?
Interesting speculation.
The Supremes virtually invited it.
Did you notice thatI Amy Coney Barrett’s concurrence in the immunity case was cited a couple of times?
Yes, exactly. She wrote the road map for prosecuting Trump.
wow. all the info processed and formulated in a way even I could follow. thank you!
Had SCOTUS released an expedited decision on Presidential Immunity #2, as requested by Jack in December '23, the trial date set for March '24 may have been met. The timing grievance lands squarely on the stained bench of SCOTUS, the equally reeking defendant and his stinkin' legal teams. *Updt, on a brighter note, Justice prevails in Colorado! Vote 💙 for more cases like this!
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tina-peters-sentenced-prison-election_n_66fee30de4b03185708ea145
Agreed 💯%!
I find it pathetically humorous that the MAGA claims of “too close to an election!” are exactly and precisely because of Trump and his legal team’s attempt to delay as long as possible. Of course, they would have hoped to keep this information *out* of the public dialogue for at least 40 more days, but now they’ll just have to acknowledge that this “October surprise” is ALL their fault (which, of course, they never will…)
Thank you! Making sure you saw this encouraging news on the side of Justice;
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tina-peters-sentenced-prison-election_n_66fee30de4b03185708ea145
Thanks for posting this! One more nut in the can. Go, Colorado!
Thank you very much once again. This nation owes a debt of gratitude to Jack Smith.
There is delicious irony in the fact that it was Trump's own delaying tactics that placed the presentation of this evidence in front of the public in the last days of the election. Furthermore, Trump has made a standard practice of going to the court of public opinion to outflank the justice department. This evidence being presented to Justice Chutkan to rule upon is ending up performing precisely the same maneuver, but against him.
Jeff Tiedrich brought up something that has been on my mind since January 6. Mike Pence's Secret Service detail wanted to put him in a car and drive him away from the Capitol, a move that he steadfastly resisted so that he could be there for the certification. It was disseminated around Congress as the chaos mounted that Mike Pence would not be in attendance and that Chuck Grassley would oversee the certification process. I would really like to know what that was about, and if the two were related. Grassley might well have refused to certify the results, and then where would we be today?
Grassley seemed to assume pence would not be there. We still don’t know why.
The depth of this conspiracy may never be fully known. If a dottering old fool like Grassley is involved, you just know there is no bottom.
I live in Iowa. Do you think if those of us who live here would write to him asking this question, he might actually reply? Probably not.
Inquiring minds would like the answer to that question.
I think that may have been the plan all along
I surely like this narrative better than yet another rambling and incoherent speech at a MAGA rally! The evil conspirator is back on the run, having been flushed out of his lair once again
This all really makes the SCOTUS ruling even more egregious and disgusting, if that's even possible.
Jack Smith is doing his job. Now we must do ours and elect Kamala Harris and Tim Walz.
Jack Smith is a genius “dog with a bone”!
Thanks Jay, once again, for laying this out; legal brilliance! My heart may yet survive through the next couple of months.
Democracy has to survive and prosper!
Maybe it is time Mueller came out of seclusion and added more bones.
I’ve read that he is unwell.
And not really necessary - his materials, if needed, should be fully available to Smith. It is DOJ work product in the end.
Thank you! This was so clear and helpful to me. I can follow your narrative even reading first thing in the morning! More cups of tea are on the way.