I don’t want anyone murdered. Kirk sowed the wind and unsurprisingly reaped the whirlwind. What the news totally seemed to miss yesterday was the shooting at a CO school — children with no political leanings at all.
The school shooting occurring at around or slightly after has taken the backseat in the news. Kirk and his organization has been a news point for the deep conservative right for a long time. School shootings have become a 'common' happening. Much sadness.
While I am anti gun and anti political violence he was a violent vile man who hated Black and Brown people, LGBTQ folks and women - I'm not sad he's gone...
Ada, I agree that the school shooting is getting very little press. . Also, there were 8 people killed in Chicago over the weekend, despite Trump's ICE assistance. Oh well. We can say these were not political killings but I posit they were also as with the 3 high school students who were shot.
I also would like to point out that it is laughable to call the democratic party "the left" when it is nothing like The Left. I know members of The Left in Germany and in the US, and their ideology is not what the mainstream democratic party is espousing. The ones that are uncomfortable with AOC and Mamdani as Social Democrats.
I read another question being raised which was, was this a professional hit by Mossad or US or Saudi intelligence because of Charlie Kirk's insistence on making the Epstein case big instead of following the Trump line. From his pulpit he was saying that these organizations were involved.
He says that it was a professional hit. I have been reading others saying that too. Given that our Intelligence community is not prioritizing intelligence or experience or expertise in their hiring, we may. never know. And, they lie to us at every turn, so who can believe anything they say?
There’s a five-minute bang-on-a-pan protest every night a few blocks from me. I never went before, because frankly it seemed kinda silly — five minutes isn’t much, and in our neighborhood it’s very to-the-choir. But tonight? Just try to stop me.
The cacerolazo form of protest has a long history, first documented in France in the 1830s, Algeria in 1961, Chile in 1971 and then across South America for decades.
What bothers me most about this whole situation is that MAGA reviles the 'left' for their ideals of compassion, empathy, and desire to end gun violence, ensure people have enough to eat and a roof over their heads no matter their colour, race, gender, or orientation, and they say these ideals are proof the left is attempting to destroy the country.
Yeah. Right. It's like when Biden was completely in the grip of dementia but was a political mastermind who moved whole continents. Give me an Effin break. Cognitive dissonance much?
I pointed out the cognitive dissonance of first accusing the political left of committing acts of "toxic" empathy and compassion, and then also accusing the political left of perpetrating most acts of violence in this country.
This is the same thing thing the right always does. They did it with Joe Biden. They said he was incompetent, ineffective, and cognitively impaired at the same time as he was supposed to be the greatest and wiliest supervillain in history.
They do it with Trump. He is simultaneously the eternally persecuted victim and the mighty hero of every story.
Liberals are simultaneously responsible for all violence and for exercising toxic empathy by spending money on food, housing, and medical care for people who the right doesn't think deserves to have these things.
What is missed about the lefts empathy is that it is often mistaken for due process. I don't like criminals that terrorize my community (or ice for that matter) but I don't want any of them dead and they all are guaranteed due process.
The left standing up for due process is not empathy but affirming what the constitution provides to all. If the right want to bang on about how they want to deny rights to people, we should let them and let them call us empathizers if they want. But we know the truth
It's both empathy and standing up for due process. They're not mutually exclusive ideals. Also, empathy the underlying source of the call for due process. We shouldn't deny our empathy because that betrays our ideals about fairness, equality, and justice.
I know this of course. I don't have to emphasize with a killer to also say they deserve justice and due process. But I may also emphasize with an immigrant who is being denied the due process they deserve.
I'm calling it out because liberals are often misrepresented as being empathizers with criminals because we want all to have due process. That can't be further from the truth
Because in the MAGAt worldview, some people don't deserve enough to eat or a roof over their heads. Only those who support the MAGAt agenda are deserving.
It's strange because the Republicans just want to take away everything that Magats need. Like healthcare, food assistance, decent drinking water, etc. The list goes on but they just don't get it.
Please use the correct words to describe what happened. Kirk was murdered not assassinated. He was not an elected official. Rep Melissa Hortman was assassinated. Charlie Kirk was murdered. Both events were absolutely reprehensible. But both were not assassinations. Words matter.
Doesn't have to be an elected official to be an assassination, just that it's clearly political as motive. Would you say that Martin Luther King was assassinated?
But right now, no one but the shooter knows the motive. Everyone assumes it's due to political views, but there could be any number of reasons someone wanted to kill Kirk.
It could be a stalker who didn't receive the attention they wanted, a jilted lover, a disgruntled business associate, or a gambling debt collector.
While it's reasonable to assume it's because of Kirk's views, it might be one of those MAGAts who is furious that he changed his view about releasing the Epstein list.
Most that want him dead feel that way due to his political rhetoric which means I'm their minds that he deserves death. While a small percentage on the left feel this way a much larger percentage feel this way on the right. The right is really trying to hammer this theme that the left is to blame for political violence right now rather than trying to quiet and quell the anger.
I seriously think the felon child rapist ordered it - after all who benefits from this. No more epstein files or talking about the economy crashing, blame the dems so violence against us will be ok, possibly more troops in blue cities - the benefits are endless...
Did you watch the spy series “the Americans” about the Russian sleeper cells? Fictional but Asha Rangappa (who ought to know) said it’s more realistic than many of the genre. Maybe the assassin was a “sleeper”. Putin, after all, is the other global figure who benefits greatly from weakening our democracy. The more time that goes on without locating the sniper and the more the MAGAS capitalize on the tragedy, the more this scenario makes sense to me.
As a veteran I think using the word assassination for celebrities and pundits is absurd. The word should be reserved for elected officials and yes, those like MLK Jr whose purpose was advancing our society towards equal treatment, equal justice and equal rights. MLK Jr was clearly assassinated for the good he was working to bring about in our society.
While Kirk’s murder was reprehensible, he gleefully and purposefully trafficked in white supremacy, misogyny, bigotry and hatred. He does not deserve a single flag flown at half mast. He wasn’t assassinated. He was murdered. I appreciate everyone’s comments but there is no backup in me on this.
The more a once specific word is used to describe everybody, especially for PR reasons, it loses its heft, respect and responsibility. Eventually it means nothing.
I agree with the problem with cheapening or nullify the meaning of words. But to be fair, there are definitely aspects of this shooting that could fall into the assassination category, though technically we are not there yet. It really may be politically motivated - and Kirk was important enough to the MAGA movement (and in getting our current administration into place) that once the details are fully known, would indeed qualify as an assassination. Kirk was NOT an ordinary citizen, he wielded significant influence and sway over his followers, making him a leader in his political movement. Regardless, the man is dead, and the bell tolls for all of us. Read John Dunne, Meditation XVII Even if we didn't like him, or didn't approve of his choices, his death will impact us all, however minutely.
Quite a different reaction by Trump and MAGA to the murders of the Hortmans. Did Trump express any concern when they were murdered? When children and non-MAGA are killed the reaction is their deaths are acceptable to protect the 2nd amendment. I am no fan of Charlie Kirk, but I mourn his death as a human being and shocked about his violent end.
I don’t believe that no matter how loudly and sincerely non-MAGA exclaim how this was unacceptable it will make one iota a difference in MAGA’s and Trump’s push to declare war on those they perceive as not like them. Trump has been itching for this moment and he will take full advantage of it and his sycophants will follow him.
He did not express concern or condolences, did not contact the family, and played golf rather than attend the funerals. POTUS=Piece Of Totally Useless Shit.
Discussing with my conservative Republican friend that disgusting is not a strong enough word. What we need is one of those French or German words that packs an entire sentence of outrage and profanity into one word. I'm still trying to come up with one....
Does the timing seem “very convenient” to you? It certainly is distracting from the Epstein files, and the Russians sending drones over Poland. It’s also a great excuse for the felon to send troops to blue cities.
Per NYT: “A preliminary and unverified report circulated inside the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives found that ammunition recovered with the rifle used to kill Charlie Kirk appeared engraved with statements “expressing transgender and anti-fascist ideology.”
A senior law enforcement official with direct knowledge of the investigation cautioned that the report had not been verified by A.T.F. analysts, did not match other summaries of the evidence and might turn out to have been misread or misinterpreted.
In fast-moving investigations, such status reports are not made public because they often contain a mixture of accurate and inaccurate information.”
I mean, please! The "engraved ammunition" *allegedly* found in the magazine of the *alleged* murder weapon is such a yuuge tell...come on, this smells of fabricated evidence, "leaked" purposefully to sustain the current regime line, and Ka$h Patel is yet again "just following orders" from Bondi, Miller, and tRump.
So now it's open-season on trans people, is it? Following the mass shooting in a Minneapolis school, the far-right has been on a holy-war crusade against trans people — not to mention the federal courts and Scotus — and this bit of leaked "evidence" will further the assaults on the LGBTQ community, virtually guaranteed.
"But a senior law enforcement official with direct knowledge of the investigation cautioned that report had not been verified by A.T.F. analysts, did not match other summaries of the evidence, and might turn out to have been misread or misinterpreted. In fast-moving investigations, such status reports are not made public because they often contain a mixture of accurate and inaccurate information. "
NYT also published two photos of the current "person of interest", one of which shows him ascending a staircase, but in neither photo was there any evidence of a rifle being carried. Significant?
Leave people the Hell alone! What do you care what people do with their lives. Let them live in peace. The sad Trans people are probably .000001% of our population. Who cares what they do? Just leave everyone alone to live as best they can during these horrible times.
Just like the poor shlep that shot off a micro-dot of 47's ear, the person that murdered Charlie Kirk will never be taken alive. The Right is enraged and out looking for blood. This is exactly the kind of incident 47 and his regime will use to wage Civil War against the Left and all the Black, Brown, and non-Christian people they despise.
They will do it anyway, they’ve been doing it for a long time. They make shit up constantly. The corporate news cycle is such that I doubt CK will continue to receive much coverage by this time next week. While I abhor this violence, the Supreme Court just gave ICE cart Blanche to terrorize everyone who has Hispanic features.
Are there any FBI field investigators remaining to deal with this shooting? It seems most have been seconded to ICE for immigrant roundups...maybe Ka$H Patel and his sidekick Bongino will get out there and nail the perp...LOL!
I cannot believe this is where we are. The entire Bible-quoting Right has a log in their collective eye. A criminal did this, irrespective of their ideology. It wasn’t me, my nice left leaning old lady friends or a group of people who like Bernie and AOC. STOP DEMONIZING US. Please. For the love of that God you claim to honor.
Charlie Kirk was an evil POS and it's tempting to say the world would be a better place without him. But, unfortunately it won't be. Kirk is far more dangerous as a martyr. Trump and the right will use this as a justification to crack down on any 'dangerous rhetoric' from the left. That, of course, will be any criticism of Trump.
Political violence is morally wrong. It has no place in this country. No matter how hypocritical the Republicans are being, we still need to condemn it. Especially since the fall-out from acts like this will only benefit the right.
Can't argue with anything you said. As a mouthpiece he was just annoying. Now he's going to be used to justify state-sanctioned murders.
Still not sad he's dead though. Far as I'm concerned it's karma for all his rants against gun control and calling for the murder of me and my fellow trans people. I feel sorry for the kids who went to debate an asshole and saw a man die. I feel sorry for his family who will be in shock and pain for the rest of their lives. For him I feel nothing but contempt.
I find it entirely possible this heinous murder was committed by some right wing looney. Utah is a deeply conservative state. My understanding is that the city and university where it occurred are similarly "red". It seems just as plausible that igniting a civil war by this assassination could be a motive.
1) Charlie Kirk was a vile, disgusting person 2) Live by the sword, die by the sword 3) Violence is NEVER acceptable except in self-defense 4) This murder rachets up the hatred and danger to America to new heights 5) A big storm is brewing and we are in for some very rough sailing 5) When this current period of strife and hatred ends (as it will), America will be a very different country, either better or worse, and WE today are the deciders of which one it will be.
More brilliance from Jay Kuo, as usual, one of the most prolific truth-tellers of our time. Thank you, Jay. And let's not forget the reality we're living in: Political violence in the United States is predominantly a phenomenon on the right, with right-wing groups responsible for most attacks and plots, particularly in the 21st century, and their actions have historically been deadlier than left-wing violence. While left-wing political violence exists, studies and reporting consistently show that actual incidents and the number of deadly attacks are much higher on the right.
Agreed. Right wing and white supremacist political violence has always dominated the US, going back to the KKK and Reconstruction. Let's not forget, though, what precipitated the most recent expansion from racial violence to political violence: SCOTUS's redefination (on specious grounds) of the 2nd amendment in the Heller decision. By completely ignoring the purpose in the 1st half of the 2nd Amendment — 'A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a Free State, ....' -— SCOTUS and the Republican and Russian captured NRA lobby group unleashed an avalanche of weapons into the hands of their followers and then stoked the fires of hate, terrorism, and war against their fellow citizens. Even Charlie Kirk himself stated that 'a few deaths [even when they are children] is worth the price" for that interpretation of the Second Amendment.
Many people seem to be assuming that the shooter is a leftist, but it would not surprise me if the shooter turns out to be a right-winger. After all, the two shooters who targeted Trump were apparently right-wingers or influenced by right-wing ideology. Moreover, the right is riven by internal fissures among different factions. Take the Epstein scandal, which is splitting the party. Laura Loomer has posted negative comments about Kirk. So I think that the odds that the shooter is a right-winger are even, if not high.
There is no world in which murdering someone like Kirk benefits those of us who find him and his views abhorrent. If it were someone from the left who shot him, they screwed the rest of us big time. They created a martyr and gave the right a pretext for retribution.
So, I'd definitely agree that the odds that the shooter was a RWNJ are pretty high. If anything, the ammo rumor, if true, seems more like a deliberate attempt to frame the left. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I trust this FBI to reveal the truth if they uncover it.
The odds of it being a leftist are almost zero. The odds of it being a right-wing looney, possibly deliberately sicced on him by his enemies in the movement, are pretty much one hundred.
Even before I learned that Patel fired the head of Utah's FBI branch, I wondered how well they would do in solving Charlie Kirk's murder.
But I have a much bigger question. The Right is fascist, pro white male superiority. When are they going to notice that Patel is very brown, Stephen Miller is a Jew, JD Vance is married to a woman of Indian descent, Bondi and Noem are women??? It seems that even the orange blight's regime can't function without minorities and women.
They will notice it when any one of them steps out of line or dear leader feels like they are stealing his thunder. It’s text book dictatorship, authoritarian or theocratic paranoia
I think they know but these people serve a purpose. He can say "See I hired brown, jews and women" yet every single one of them passed the ultimate test of being loyal AF to the great orange one.
I don’t want anyone murdered. Kirk sowed the wind and unsurprisingly reaped the whirlwind. What the news totally seemed to miss yesterday was the shooting at a CO school — children with no political leanings at all.
The school shooting occurring at around or slightly after has taken the backseat in the news. Kirk and his organization has been a news point for the deep conservative right for a long time. School shootings have become a 'common' happening. Much sadness.
I encourage people to read about his politics at his Wikipedia page,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk
While I am anti gun and anti political violence he was a violent vile man who hated Black and Brown people, LGBTQ folks and women - I'm not sad he's gone...
Ada, I agree that the school shooting is getting very little press. . Also, there were 8 people killed in Chicago over the weekend, despite Trump's ICE assistance. Oh well. We can say these were not political killings but I posit they were also as with the 3 high school students who were shot.
I also would like to point out that it is laughable to call the democratic party "the left" when it is nothing like The Left. I know members of The Left in Germany and in the US, and their ideology is not what the mainstream democratic party is espousing. The ones that are uncomfortable with AOC and Mamdani as Social Democrats.
I read another question being raised which was, was this a professional hit by Mossad or US or Saudi intelligence because of Charlie Kirk's insistence on making the Epstein case big instead of following the Trump line. From his pulpit he was saying that these organizations were involved.
https://open.substack.com/pub/narativ/p/analysis-was-charlie-kirk-killed?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
He says that it was a professional hit. I have been reading others saying that too. Given that our Intelligence community is not prioritizing intelligence or experience or expertise in their hiring, we may. never know. And, they lie to us at every turn, so who can believe anything they say?
Exactly! Apparently, they don’t count. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
There’s a five-minute bang-on-a-pan protest every night a few blocks from me. I never went before, because frankly it seemed kinda silly — five minutes isn’t much, and in our neighborhood it’s very to-the-choir. But tonight? Just try to stop me.
You must live in a very blue neighborhood.
brilliant! This is a way of commiserating pure anger.
Anger? Celebration?
Celebrating community anger
Anger about Charlie's death?
Since this has been going on regularly before Charlie’s death. I assume not. I assumed about the situation.
Protest
The cacerolazo form of protest has a long history, first documented in France in the 1830s, Algeria in 1961, Chile in 1971 and then across South America for decades.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacerolazo
What bothers me most about this whole situation is that MAGA reviles the 'left' for their ideals of compassion, empathy, and desire to end gun violence, ensure people have enough to eat and a roof over their heads no matter their colour, race, gender, or orientation, and they say these ideals are proof the left is attempting to destroy the country.
And the Left has these values at the same time as they're also responsible for all bloodthirsty violence anywhere. Because that makes total sense. 🙄
Yeah. Right. It's like when Biden was completely in the grip of dementia but was a political mastermind who moved whole continents. Give me an Effin break. Cognitive dissonance much?
Exactly
I don’t understand what you are saying
I pointed out the cognitive dissonance of first accusing the political left of committing acts of "toxic" empathy and compassion, and then also accusing the political left of perpetrating most acts of violence in this country.
I gently suggest that your sarcasm detector is malfunctioning.
This site has some interesting data. https://crimeresearch.org/
This is the same thing thing the right always does. They did it with Joe Biden. They said he was incompetent, ineffective, and cognitively impaired at the same time as he was supposed to be the greatest and wiliest supervillain in history.
They do it with Trump. He is simultaneously the eternally persecuted victim and the mighty hero of every story.
Liberals are simultaneously responsible for all violence and for exercising toxic empathy by spending money on food, housing, and medical care for people who the right doesn't think deserves to have these things.
Yes, the people on the margins, the "others, less thans, unworthy," do not deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.
And yet the magats claim to be so religious! Jesus said whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers you do unto
me. Do they know that? Or don't they care. It boggles the mind.
That isn’t the part of the Bible that they cherry pick from. They need to actually read the words of Jesus himself, but they never do.
What is missed about the lefts empathy is that it is often mistaken for due process. I don't like criminals that terrorize my community (or ice for that matter) but I don't want any of them dead and they all are guaranteed due process.
The left standing up for due process is not empathy but affirming what the constitution provides to all. If the right want to bang on about how they want to deny rights to people, we should let them and let them call us empathizers if they want. But we know the truth
It's both empathy and standing up for due process. They're not mutually exclusive ideals. Also, empathy the underlying source of the call for due process. We shouldn't deny our empathy because that betrays our ideals about fairness, equality, and justice.
I know this of course. I don't have to emphasize with a killer to also say they deserve justice and due process. But I may also emphasize with an immigrant who is being denied the due process they deserve.
I'm calling it out because liberals are often misrepresented as being empathizers with criminals because we want all to have due process. That can't be further from the truth
Well said, Bill!
Thank you very much Sharon.
Before due process and some semblance of civil rights, 'strange fruit' was not
an uncommon thing...ghastly, horrific, terrorizing, inhumane, and in our country.
Due process for everyone is following / applying the pledge of so-called allegiance,
without which the republic REPRESENTED BY the flag can exist. A flag is easily
replaced, not so a republic that has been under construction for 250 years.
Because in the MAGAt worldview, some people don't deserve enough to eat or a roof over their heads. Only those who support the MAGAt agenda are deserving.
Sad but true. "If you're not with us, then you don't deserve our help and support."
You mean only white heterosexual blonde fake christians...oh and gotta be rich - the white big daddy in the sky god only likes rich white people.
It's strange because the Republicans just want to take away everything that Magats need. Like healthcare, food assistance, decent drinking water, etc. The list goes on but they just don't get it.
If they were truly Christians as they say, they would NEVER behave this way.
Meanwhile, it is Trumpsters going after Dems AND their families.
totally nuts, upside-down world they live in...
And trying to destroy THEM.
Please use the correct words to describe what happened. Kirk was murdered not assassinated. He was not an elected official. Rep Melissa Hortman was assassinated. Charlie Kirk was murdered. Both events were absolutely reprehensible. But both were not assassinations. Words matter.
Doesn't have to be an elected official to be an assassination, just that it's clearly political as motive. Would you say that Martin Luther King was assassinated?
But right now, no one but the shooter knows the motive. Everyone assumes it's due to political views, but there could be any number of reasons someone wanted to kill Kirk.
It could be a stalker who didn't receive the attention they wanted, a jilted lover, a disgruntled business associate, or a gambling debt collector.
While it's reasonable to assume it's because of Kirk's views, it might be one of those MAGAts who is furious that he changed his view about releasing the Epstein list.
Most that want him dead feel that way due to his political rhetoric which means I'm their minds that he deserves death. While a small percentage on the left feel this way a much larger percentage feel this way on the right. The right is really trying to hammer this theme that the left is to blame for political violence right now rather than trying to quiet and quell the anger.
I seriously think the felon child rapist ordered it - after all who benefits from this. No more epstein files or talking about the economy crashing, blame the dems so violence against us will be ok, possibly more troops in blue cities - the benefits are endless...
Did you watch the spy series “the Americans” about the Russian sleeper cells? Fictional but Asha Rangappa (who ought to know) said it’s more realistic than many of the genre. Maybe the assassin was a “sleeper”. Putin, after all, is the other global figure who benefits greatly from weakening our democracy. The more time that goes on without locating the sniper and the more the MAGAS capitalize on the tragedy, the more this scenario makes sense to me.
100%
I'm going to have to disagree here. This was a very professional hit, not a disgruntled ex-lover.
Yes I would. Please see my reply below ⬇️. Thanks for the question.
I was about to say the same thing last night. But I checked the definition of “assassination”. Damned if it doesn’t include celebrities and pundits.
Oh well.
As a veteran I think using the word assassination for celebrities and pundits is absurd. The word should be reserved for elected officials and yes, those like MLK Jr whose purpose was advancing our society towards equal treatment, equal justice and equal rights. MLK Jr was clearly assassinated for the good he was working to bring about in our society.
While Kirk’s murder was reprehensible, he gleefully and purposefully trafficked in white supremacy, misogyny, bigotry and hatred. He does not deserve a single flag flown at half mast. He wasn’t assassinated. He was murdered. I appreciate everyone’s comments but there is no backup in me on this.
The more a once specific word is used to describe everybody, especially for PR reasons, it loses its heft, respect and responsibility. Eventually it means nothing.
I agree with the problem with cheapening or nullify the meaning of words. But to be fair, there are definitely aspects of this shooting that could fall into the assassination category, though technically we are not there yet. It really may be politically motivated - and Kirk was important enough to the MAGA movement (and in getting our current administration into place) that once the details are fully known, would indeed qualify as an assassination. Kirk was NOT an ordinary citizen, he wielded significant influence and sway over his followers, making him a leader in his political movement. Regardless, the man is dead, and the bell tolls for all of us. Read John Dunne, Meditation XVII Even if we didn't like him, or didn't approve of his choices, his death will impact us all, however minutely.
Yes - the definition usually includes the phrase 'for political purposes', which refers to not the person as much as the motivations.
Good to know. Thanks.
Definitions of most words are also subject to to change over time. Words can become more or less inclusive depending on how people use them.
Very true. Thanks.
Thank you! My thoughts exactly. Words do matter.
Quite a different reaction by Trump and MAGA to the murders of the Hortmans. Did Trump express any concern when they were murdered? When children and non-MAGA are killed the reaction is their deaths are acceptable to protect the 2nd amendment. I am no fan of Charlie Kirk, but I mourn his death as a human being and shocked about his violent end.
I don’t believe that no matter how loudly and sincerely non-MAGA exclaim how this was unacceptable it will make one iota a difference in MAGA’s and Trump’s push to declare war on those they perceive as not like them. Trump has been itching for this moment and he will take full advantage of it and his sycophants will follow him.
No, when the Hortmans died, Trump not only didn't express concern, he seemed downright SMUG. Disgusting.
He did not express concern or condolences, did not contact the family, and played golf rather than attend the funerals. POTUS=Piece Of Totally Useless Shit.
Discussing with my conservative Republican friend that disgusting is not a strong enough word. What we need is one of those French or German words that packs an entire sentence of outrage and profanity into one word. I'm still trying to come up with one....
I like that alternate abbreviation!
I stole it from somewhere, and incorporated it into my latest protest sign
Does the timing seem “very convenient” to you? It certainly is distracting from the Epstein files, and the Russians sending drones over Poland. It’s also a great excuse for the felon to send troops to blue cities.
Yes! Exactly - inside job! Plus Kirk wanted the epstein files released.
Per NYT: “A preliminary and unverified report circulated inside the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives found that ammunition recovered with the rifle used to kill Charlie Kirk appeared engraved with statements “expressing transgender and anti-fascist ideology.”
A senior law enforcement official with direct knowledge of the investigation cautioned that the report had not been verified by A.T.F. analysts, did not match other summaries of the evidence and might turn out to have been misread or misinterpreted.
In fast-moving investigations, such status reports are not made public because they often contain a mixture of accurate and inaccurate information.”
Bullshit. It was an inside job.
Not to mention inscribing bullets is a right-wing fetish, not a left-wing one.
I mean, please! The "engraved ammunition" *allegedly* found in the magazine of the *alleged* murder weapon is such a yuuge tell...come on, this smells of fabricated evidence, "leaked" purposefully to sustain the current regime line, and Ka$h Patel is yet again "just following orders" from Bondi, Miller, and tRump.
So now it's open-season on trans people, is it? Following the mass shooting in a Minneapolis school, the far-right has been on a holy-war crusade against trans people — not to mention the federal courts and Scotus — and this bit of leaked "evidence" will further the assaults on the LGBTQ community, virtually guaranteed.
Update from the NYT:
"But a senior law enforcement official with direct knowledge of the investigation cautioned that report had not been verified by A.T.F. analysts, did not match other summaries of the evidence, and might turn out to have been misread or misinterpreted. In fast-moving investigations, such status reports are not made public because they often contain a mixture of accurate and inaccurate information. "
Oh, really?
A well-planted lie makes it way around the world before the truth gets its shoes on.
The NYT is a prime helper in doing so.
😥😥😥
Yet, the Administration literally rushed to share this “evidence.” Doesn’t pass the smell test.
NYT also published two photos of the current "person of interest", one of which shows him ascending a staircase, but in neither photo was there any evidence of a rifle being carried. Significant?
Totally fabricated - the whole thing, false flag inside job
100%
Leave people the Hell alone! What do you care what people do with their lives. Let them live in peace. The sad Trans people are probably .000001% of our population. Who cares what they do? Just leave everyone alone to live as best they can during these horrible times.
Just like the poor shlep that shot off a micro-dot of 47's ear, the person that murdered Charlie Kirk will never be taken alive. The Right is enraged and out looking for blood. This is exactly the kind of incident 47 and his regime will use to wage Civil War against the Left and all the Black, Brown, and non-Christian people they despise.
They will do it anyway, they’ve been doing it for a long time. They make shit up constantly. The corporate news cycle is such that I doubt CK will continue to receive much coverage by this time next week. While I abhor this violence, the Supreme Court just gave ICE cart Blanche to terrorize everyone who has Hispanic features.
I hope you are right and CK is old news soon.
Are there any FBI field investigators remaining to deal with this shooting? It seems most have been seconded to ICE for immigrant roundups...maybe Ka$H Patel and his sidekick Bongino will get out there and nail the perp...LOL!
I think that was aa false flag just like this one...
I cannot believe this is where we are. The entire Bible-quoting Right has a log in their collective eye. A criminal did this, irrespective of their ideology. It wasn’t me, my nice left leaning old lady friends or a group of people who like Bernie and AOC. STOP DEMONIZING US. Please. For the love of that God you claim to honor.
The god they worship is actually Satan. They don't have a clue as to what Jesus of Nazareth was about. It's pathetic how wrong they are.
Mammon. They worship Mammon.
Unfortunately, Trump is on the lookout for incidents like this shooting to pour gasoline on the fire.
He isn't just looking for such incidents. He is actively courting people to make them happen. Putin is his boss.
The MAGA are trying to draw attention away from their kicking Charlie Kirk out of their ranks because he said the Epstein files should be released.
Laura Loomer was one of the MAGs calling him every dirty name in the book and inciting her fans to go get him
https://bsky.app/profile/americanmuckrakers.com/post/3lyjoilnhak2j
Let's not forget the feud between Nick Fuentes and Kirk, either. Neither of them had followers who were exactly.....what's the word?......stable.
This! It could just as easily have been a disgruntled cult member. Everyone needs to stop jumping to conclusions without evidence.
Charlie Kirk was an evil POS and it's tempting to say the world would be a better place without him. But, unfortunately it won't be. Kirk is far more dangerous as a martyr. Trump and the right will use this as a justification to crack down on any 'dangerous rhetoric' from the left. That, of course, will be any criticism of Trump.
Political violence is morally wrong. It has no place in this country. No matter how hypocritical the Republicans are being, we still need to condemn it. Especially since the fall-out from acts like this will only benefit the right.
Can't argue with anything you said. As a mouthpiece he was just annoying. Now he's going to be used to justify state-sanctioned murders.
Still not sad he's dead though. Far as I'm concerned it's karma for all his rants against gun control and calling for the murder of me and my fellow trans people. I feel sorry for the kids who went to debate an asshole and saw a man die. I feel sorry for his family who will be in shock and pain for the rest of their lives. For him I feel nothing but contempt.
Exactly. Thank you, Kevin.
I find it entirely possible this heinous murder was committed by some right wing looney. Utah is a deeply conservative state. My understanding is that the city and university where it occurred are similarly "red". It seems just as plausible that igniting a civil war by this assassination could be a motive.
Kirk was probably complacent about security because Utah is so deeply conservative.
I agree with your conclusion. But it doesn't really matter what color a state is; it just takes one nut job.
1) Charlie Kirk was a vile, disgusting person 2) Live by the sword, die by the sword 3) Violence is NEVER acceptable except in self-defense 4) This murder rachets up the hatred and danger to America to new heights 5) A big storm is brewing and we are in for some very rough sailing 5) When this current period of strife and hatred ends (as it will), America will be a very different country, either better or worse, and WE today are the deciders of which one it will be.
More brilliance from Jay Kuo, as usual, one of the most prolific truth-tellers of our time. Thank you, Jay. And let's not forget the reality we're living in: Political violence in the United States is predominantly a phenomenon on the right, with right-wing groups responsible for most attacks and plots, particularly in the 21st century, and their actions have historically been deadlier than left-wing violence. While left-wing political violence exists, studies and reporting consistently show that actual incidents and the number of deadly attacks are much higher on the right.
Agreed. Right wing and white supremacist political violence has always dominated the US, going back to the KKK and Reconstruction. Let's not forget, though, what precipitated the most recent expansion from racial violence to political violence: SCOTUS's redefination (on specious grounds) of the 2nd amendment in the Heller decision. By completely ignoring the purpose in the 1st half of the 2nd Amendment — 'A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a Free State, ....' -— SCOTUS and the Republican and Russian captured NRA lobby group unleashed an avalanche of weapons into the hands of their followers and then stoked the fires of hate, terrorism, and war against their fellow citizens. Even Charlie Kirk himself stated that 'a few deaths [even when they are children] is worth the price" for that interpretation of the Second Amendment.
“More brilliance from Jay Kuo, as usual, one of the most prolific truth-tellers of our time.” Amen. He’s the best.
Many people seem to be assuming that the shooter is a leftist, but it would not surprise me if the shooter turns out to be a right-winger. After all, the two shooters who targeted Trump were apparently right-wingers or influenced by right-wing ideology. Moreover, the right is riven by internal fissures among different factions. Take the Epstein scandal, which is splitting the party. Laura Loomer has posted negative comments about Kirk. So I think that the odds that the shooter is a right-winger are even, if not high.
There is no world in which murdering someone like Kirk benefits those of us who find him and his views abhorrent. If it were someone from the left who shot him, they screwed the rest of us big time. They created a martyr and gave the right a pretext for retribution.
So, I'd definitely agree that the odds that the shooter was a RWNJ are pretty high. If anything, the ammo rumor, if true, seems more like a deliberate attempt to frame the left. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I trust this FBI to reveal the truth if they uncover it.
These shooters are usually mentally unbalanced.
The odds of it being a leftist are almost zero. The odds of it being a right-wing looney, possibly deliberately sicced on him by his enemies in the movement, are pretty much one hundred.
Even before I learned that Patel fired the head of Utah's FBI branch, I wondered how well they would do in solving Charlie Kirk's murder.
But I have a much bigger question. The Right is fascist, pro white male superiority. When are they going to notice that Patel is very brown, Stephen Miller is a Jew, JD Vance is married to a woman of Indian descent, Bondi and Noem are women??? It seems that even the orange blight's regime can't function without minorities and women.
They will notice it when any one of them steps out of line or dear leader feels like they are stealing his thunder. It’s text book dictatorship, authoritarian or theocratic paranoia
I think they know but these people serve a purpose. He can say "See I hired brown, jews and women" yet every single one of them passed the ultimate test of being loyal AF to the great orange one.
If you’re a devoted MAGA, this is allowed.