Jay, I'd love your thoughts about why Members of Congress active in planning and executing January 6 and the rest of the attempted self-coup are not being investigated and indicted.
Prosecuting a sitting Congressmember for a crime that feels “political” in nature is a tricky thing. There are many defenses that a Congressmember can assert, including First Amendment and “Speech and Debate” clause protections. To show they were part of the broader conspiracy to overturn the election, you would need to have nearly irrefutable evidence that they agreed to the illegal plan and took non-privileged, affirmative steps toward it.
Anything short of smoking guns will result in charges of politicization of the Justice Department, which is a road that is difficult to walk back from. I have yet to see strong enough evidence to make out a case against any one Congressmember, let alone the dozens who were in the know, for example, on the plan to object to the electoral certification. That alone won’t cut it in mind because they had a right to object under the Electoral Count Act, and so they can’t be held criminally liable for that.
I’m keeping my eyes peeled of course for any sign of who was in the know about the illegal plan to use Pence to overturn the count. Even there, however, there may be an argument that it is protected under certain Congressional privileges. With this Supreme Court, I doubt that the case could get very far without being dismissed.
We’ll have to see what the evidence eventually shows.
Jay, thank you for taking time to reply with such valuable information about these issues. I wish your reply could have given us more hope that these traitors in Congress can be and will be held accountable. It appears we must create our own hope by getting out the vote for Biden and all non-MAGA candidates.
Oh, C’mon, Jay! Johnson is just like my Ohio’s “Senator”, jd vance, and Mike Lee; their English is exquisite, with nary a hint of their Russian accents. The DOJ should have had them, and many, many others, locked up in Gitmo some time ago! But I do understand your lawyerly hesitation to state that publicly. I have NO such restriction!
This deeply bothers me. Republicans (or several of them) were laughing and relaxed while the assault was taking place. Which tells me they figured they wouldn't be a target because they were wholly complicit in the attempted overthrow of our Democracy.
The reason you are hearing about the “weaponization“ of the department of Justice and “politically motivated“ legal proceedings is 147 members of the House Of Representatives are beginning to fear their own prosecution once Jack Smith has nailed Trump.
If Donald Trump loses the election, the delaying tactics in the January 6 case, the documents case, and the Georgia election interference case must ultimately yield to adjudication. The evidence in every single one of those cases is far more powerful than the case that Alvin Bragg just won in New York. Ergo, Donald Trump MUST win the presidential election in November to save himself, and collaterally to save the supporters who broke the law on his behalf. There are MANY of those, and they are quaking in their boots.
Dude, Garland had over 3 years to arrest and prosecute Ginni and Clarence, Gaetz, Boebert, and all of their cronies. NOTHING was done. What makes you so sure something actually will be? Every other Trump trial has been delayed. Jack's hands are tied in the espionage case. SCOTUS stopped the sedition trial in DC. Trump and his cronies have stalled the case in Georgia. Republicans are suing in Nevada, Arizona, Wisconsin, etc to mess with voter rolls and election administration. Garland sat on his ass and did fuck all to stop this. They've had a fuck ton of time to regroup, figure out what they did wrong, and continue to plot the next attack on our democracy. The failed coup, without ARRESTS afterwards, was practice. Abbott gave the middle finger to the DOJ and they're suing Live Nation. No one is going to save us. Haven't you figured this out yet?
I sent an email to the Biden campaign proposing that he pardon each individual GOP congressperson who refused to certify the 2020 election or participated in attempts to steal that election. In the process he should point.out their individual acts of sedition and lawbreaking in detail. The Department of Justice is not going to be able to go after all of them, and each single one will fight tooth and nail to prevent conviction. pardoning them indicates that they are guilty, but will not face punishment. Politically perfect. Judicially, the best we can hope for.
Sworn in Jan 3 but she would not have been involved in the certification of the electors becasue she wasn't "official" yet. That's what I was trying to verify... I was wondering about her actual opportunity to place the pipe bombs as is Pat's belief. And for sure she was kissing trumps ass well before then.
Well, if "Biden's" DOJ were thoroughly "weaponized", there already would have been indictments drawn up on several dozen Congressional seditionists and terrorist enablers...but, since the Dems believe in a constitutionally-functioning justice system, nothing has been done to date without proper procedures...or because of lack of political will, a characteristic not found amongst the MAGA GOP.
I would prefer a more draconian measure but wouldn’t actually put hoods over their heads and hang them for treason. Nor would I blindfold them and put them in front of a fire squad next to a ditch they dug.
No, I wouldn’t actually do that but not disturbed by those images.
No. I want them to rot in prison for years and years. Pondering their former ideas of greatness while they are stuck in a filthy little hole 23 hours a day.
One big problem were the polls that were paid for and promoted by Republicans. They showed that Mandela Barnes stood no chance of winning, so money dried up. The polls were wrong, though, and he came within one point. If the polls hadn’t been skewed, he probably would have defeated Johnson.
Not to sound like a maga, but I do believe the polls are fixed.
There’s a lot of good evidence out there indicating as much.
I read most are owned by right- wingers.
This would explain the “ red wave” that never happened and also why Biden continues to poll low. I really believe he is far more supported than polls show.
It may be that they are fixed by who they poll. If you poll all Republicans or Independents that lean Republican, you will get a certain set of answers.
Given their instinct toward claiming election "fraud", and using the claim to commit their own fraud, it's probably worth examining each election he "won" to determine if it was a legitimate win. Copy-Paste for every election-denier GOP official.
T**mp with Russian troll farms,Bill Barr, the catch n kill schemes and Comey’s last minute bomb, stole the 2016 election from Sec. Clinton. And that’s just some of what we know.
"Importantly, they seem to point toward once again to Sen. Johnson and his possible involvement in the conspiracy to overturn the election." This is a delicious development. Johnson is such a creep. When he went to Moscow with the rest of the traitors, I was infuriated. I would love to see him go down. Thanks for all this, Jay. It's important!
Johnson will fall back on that famous get-out-of-jail- free card of the 'Speech and Debate" clause in the Constitution. Other Jan6 villains cite it, and that's Ron's first option.
This sounds like the stuff of third world countries. What a bunch of dopes. Anyone with common sense knows that anything sent electronically (texts, emails, etc.) can be tracked indefinitely. These clowns deserve whatever they get. So damn sick of all this nonsense.
Two things ran across my mind as I was reading this: 1) I wonder what could have been accomplished for the nation by all here *smart* people if they had been working for the public good rather than The Convicted Felon, and 2) it took me years of study and a TON of student loans (I’m retired and still paying them off) to get my law degree, and the very last thing I would do is throw it down the drain doing illegal political activities. What fools. What morons.
The very idea of Ron Johnson getting indicted makes my heart go pitter pat. There's no way his COS acted on his own. My theory is that Johnson used him as a conduit in case he later needed a fall guy.
I imagine his COS is not happy with Johnson's attempts to throw him under the bus. I see a future for the Intern and Johnson's COS to be cooperating witnesses - receiving lighter sentences in exchange for spilling the tea.
These lying liars and their endless lies. Get the 23 year old intern to be your "bagman." These treasonous people need to be sitting in a courtroom while a jury of their peers listens to how they plotted to overthrow a free and fair election. They should be grateful that hanging is considered cruel and unusual treatment. And what about the other so called congressional "leaders" who supported the attack on the Capitol and the proceedings but ran like scared cats when their MAGA supporters began beating police with barriers and flag poles and ransacked the building.
Never could understand that in all the Jan6 investigations launched, that Ron Johnson wasn't held up as at least an "unindicted co-conspirator", as his fingerprints literally were on the WI fake electors paperwork. Is it too late in the game for a GJ to actually indict Johnson for aiding and abetting a felonious act? Asking for a friend.
Curious if Eastman dispensing legal advice over the airwaves to a former client(?) Convicted Felon as to which writ to file to SCOTUS to bypass the NY State appellate/appeal process constitutes a violation of GA release agreement (last 8 words) and/or law license suspension?
The GA terms were;
As part of the agreement, Eastman agreed not to communicate “in any way” about the case with any co-defendant or witness except through counsel. The order signed by his lawyer also says Eastman “shall perform no act to intimidate any person known to him or her to be a codefendant or witness in this case or to otherwise obstruct the administration of justice."
Chesebro knew that after a state's electors met and voted and that the vote is certified by the state's legislature (or otherwise according to the state's law) there can be no such thing as "alternate electors or alternate electoral votes". The purpose of the "alternate electoral votes" scheme was not to change the Electoral College vote count in favor of Trump but to generate enough smoke so that Pence would throw up his hands and refuse to open the ballots on Jan 6. It was thought by Chesebro and Eastman that this would throw the election into the House where Trump would win. This would of course be challenged but Trump would be declared the winner by a Trump friendly SCOTUS ala Bush v. Gore.
Trump knew that it was highly unlikely that Pence was going to fold--the VP told him as much. This lead to the attack on the Capital in a last ditch effort to "persuade" Pence to walk away from his Constitutionally required obligation to open and count Electoral College votes.
Trump, Eastman, Chesebro, Guilani, et al, knew the "vote fraud" story was bull-shit. This was an attempt to overthrow the newly-elected President and Vice President.
good point. without people like Raffensberger and Katie Hobbs the electoral college vote process is subject to highjack. And I suspect that Trump's team is working very hard to get their supports on local election commissions and other agencies responsible for running and certifying elections.
Dear law and political science students! As you are considering your next internship or first job, please consider putting "No GOP campaign internships or job offers, please!" on your cover letter and/or resume. Make it BIG. Even if you disagree with the Democrats politically, wouldn't you rather do your internship somewhere, where you won't end up in court? Just a thought!
Is Troupise one of the people that received a "raise or severance " deal that propublica found? Amazing how it is taking 4 yrs to finally get a legal connection to at least 1 senator.
Jay, I'd love your thoughts about why Members of Congress active in planning and executing January 6 and the rest of the attempted self-coup are not being investigated and indicted.
Prosecuting a sitting Congressmember for a crime that feels “political” in nature is a tricky thing. There are many defenses that a Congressmember can assert, including First Amendment and “Speech and Debate” clause protections. To show they were part of the broader conspiracy to overturn the election, you would need to have nearly irrefutable evidence that they agreed to the illegal plan and took non-privileged, affirmative steps toward it.
Anything short of smoking guns will result in charges of politicization of the Justice Department, which is a road that is difficult to walk back from. I have yet to see strong enough evidence to make out a case against any one Congressmember, let alone the dozens who were in the know, for example, on the plan to object to the electoral certification. That alone won’t cut it in mind because they had a right to object under the Electoral Count Act, and so they can’t be held criminally liable for that.
I’m keeping my eyes peeled of course for any sign of who was in the know about the illegal plan to use Pence to overturn the count. Even there, however, there may be an argument that it is protected under certain Congressional privileges. With this Supreme Court, I doubt that the case could get very far without being dismissed.
We’ll have to see what the evidence eventually shows.
Jay, thank you for taking time to reply with such valuable information about these issues. I wish your reply could have given us more hope that these traitors in Congress can be and will be held accountable. It appears we must create our own hope by getting out the vote for Biden and all non-MAGA candidates.
Oh, C’mon, Jay! Johnson is just like my Ohio’s “Senator”, jd vance, and Mike Lee; their English is exquisite, with nary a hint of their Russian accents. The DOJ should have had them, and many, many others, locked up in Gitmo some time ago! But I do understand your lawyerly hesitation to state that publicly. I have NO such restriction!
What about Scott Perry and the Jeff Clark / DOJ takeover?
Me, too. They are still trying to overturn the government and keep Trump in power.
This deeply bothers me. Republicans (or several of them) were laughing and relaxed while the assault was taking place. Which tells me they figured they wouldn't be a target because they were wholly complicit in the attempted overthrow of our Democracy.
And yet, it's not like Magas care about anyone except their Orange God. They would get trounced just for being with the other congress/senators.
That's been bothering me too. Over 100 seditionists are 𝙨𝙩𝙞𝙡𝙡 working in Congress.
The reason you are hearing about the “weaponization“ of the department of Justice and “politically motivated“ legal proceedings is 147 members of the House Of Representatives are beginning to fear their own prosecution once Jack Smith has nailed Trump.
I don't disagree but can Smith nail him to the wall? The way Cannon and SCOTUS keep interfering, it seems Jack has an uphill battle😕
If Donald Trump loses the election, the delaying tactics in the January 6 case, the documents case, and the Georgia election interference case must ultimately yield to adjudication. The evidence in every single one of those cases is far more powerful than the case that Alvin Bragg just won in New York. Ergo, Donald Trump MUST win the presidential election in November to save himself, and collaterally to save the supporters who broke the law on his behalf. There are MANY of those, and they are quaking in their boots.
Dude, Garland had over 3 years to arrest and prosecute Ginni and Clarence, Gaetz, Boebert, and all of their cronies. NOTHING was done. What makes you so sure something actually will be? Every other Trump trial has been delayed. Jack's hands are tied in the espionage case. SCOTUS stopped the sedition trial in DC. Trump and his cronies have stalled the case in Georgia. Republicans are suing in Nevada, Arizona, Wisconsin, etc to mess with voter rolls and election administration. Garland sat on his ass and did fuck all to stop this. They've had a fuck ton of time to regroup, figure out what they did wrong, and continue to plot the next attack on our democracy. The failed coup, without ARRESTS afterwards, was practice. Abbott gave the middle finger to the DOJ and they're suing Live Nation. No one is going to save us. Haven't you figured this out yet?
Orange Jello is notoriously hard to nail to the wall.
As an addendum:
I sent an email to the Biden campaign proposing that he pardon each individual GOP congressperson who refused to certify the 2020 election or participated in attempts to steal that election. In the process he should point.out their individual acts of sedition and lawbreaking in detail. The Department of Justice is not going to be able to go after all of them, and each single one will fight tooth and nail to prevent conviction. pardoning them indicates that they are guilty, but will not face punishment. Politically perfect. Judicially, the best we can hope for.
Yea the ol’ “ it’s rigged!” methodology.
Getting out in front of it.
I would like to think they are in fear of prosecution, but I don’t see evidence of it. Do you see/know things I haven’t picked up on?
The way they constantly deflect and project is evidence enough for me.
What Nina said.
same
I strongly believe MTG placed the pipe bombs at the DNC headquarters, yet there is not a word about it.
Oh I 100% believe she was involved somehow. She wasn't actually in office yet correct?
Yes, as I understand it, she requested a pardon before she even stepped foot in office. Now why would a person do that?
Oh an innocent person would not do that. And she came into office screaming. She's one of the most vile people in Congress
Sworn in on Jan 3, I think. But was in meetings with the Felon and his pack at least in December.
Sworn in Jan 3 but she would not have been involved in the certification of the electors becasue she wasn't "official" yet. That's what I was trying to verify... I was wondering about her actual opportunity to place the pipe bombs as is Pat's belief. And for sure she was kissing trumps ass well before then.
Good point. I forgot about the swearing in part.
On another note. Have we ever heard anything more about the “tours and tour guides”?
Well, if "Biden's" DOJ were thoroughly "weaponized", there already would have been indictments drawn up on several dozen Congressional seditionists and terrorist enablers...but, since the Dems believe in a constitutionally-functioning justice system, nothing has been done to date without proper procedures...or because of lack of political will, a characteristic not found amongst the MAGA GOP.
Me too. Will they get to hide behind the Speech and Debate shield? Gah, they are all so rotten.
I would love to see Johnson go to prison. What POS.
Everyone who participated in and supported this attempt to overturn the election results should be in jail. Yesterday is good.
I would prefer a more draconian measure but wouldn’t actually put hoods over their heads and hang them for treason. Nor would I blindfold them and put them in front of a fire squad next to a ditch they dug.
No, I wouldn’t actually do that but not disturbed by those images.
No. I want them to rot in prison for years and years. Pondering their former ideas of greatness while they are stuck in a filthy little hole 23 hours a day.
Problem is SCROTUS or some appeals court could let them go or some Repugnant POTUS could pardon them.
That's why some crimes should not be pardonable. Like treason.
Should? People like Trump do not live with any shoulds .
HOW did that odious man get reelected? Especially after he spent one 4th of July in Moscow meeting with Putin's henchmen.
One big problem were the polls that were paid for and promoted by Republicans. They showed that Mandela Barnes stood no chance of winning, so money dried up. The polls were wrong, though, and he came within one point. If the polls hadn’t been skewed, he probably would have defeated Johnson.
This is why dubious, fake and/or fraudulent polls are so dangerous.
Not to sound like a maga, but I do believe the polls are fixed.
There’s a lot of good evidence out there indicating as much.
I read most are owned by right- wingers.
This would explain the “ red wave” that never happened and also why Biden continues to poll low. I really believe he is far more supported than polls show.
It may be that they are fixed by who they poll. If you poll all Republicans or Independents that lean Republican, you will get a certain set of answers.
Also all the negative ads about Mandela (a Black man) and CRIME!
Excellent point.
Given their instinct toward claiming election "fraud", and using the claim to commit their own fraud, it's probably worth examining each election he "won" to determine if it was a legitimate win. Copy-Paste for every election-denier GOP official.
Considering that it's always, ALWAYS, projection with these people, that's an excellent suggestion.
True.
I mean, the irony is just dizzying.
T**mp with Russian troll farms,Bill Barr, the catch n kill schemes and Comey’s last minute bomb, stole the 2016 election from Sec. Clinton. And that’s just some of what we know.
I’m with you Sharon - Johnson is a traitor and a smug SOB!
He strikes me as smug and dumb as a box o’rocks at the same time.
He’s guilty AF.
Me too. I’m a Wisconsinite
"Importantly, they seem to point toward once again to Sen. Johnson and his possible involvement in the conspiracy to overturn the election." This is a delicious development. Johnson is such a creep. When he went to Moscow with the rest of the traitors, I was infuriated. I would love to see him go down. Thanks for all this, Jay. It's important!
Well, both Chesebro and Troupis have each been charged with felony forgery, so Sen. Johnson is probably crapping his pants even as we write.
Johnson will fall back on that famous get-out-of-jail- free card of the 'Speech and Debate" clause in the Constitution. Other Jan6 villains cite it, and that's Ron's first option.
Maybe we need to get rid of that. Or amend it.
This sounds like the stuff of third world countries. What a bunch of dopes. Anyone with common sense knows that anything sent electronically (texts, emails, etc.) can be tracked indefinitely. These clowns deserve whatever they get. So damn sick of all this nonsense.
It does indeed seem like a case of subversive tribalism versus democratic transparency.
Two things ran across my mind as I was reading this: 1) I wonder what could have been accomplished for the nation by all here *smart* people if they had been working for the public good rather than The Convicted Felon, and 2) it took me years of study and a TON of student loans (I’m retired and still paying them off) to get my law degree, and the very last thing I would do is throw it down the drain doing illegal political activities. What fools. What morons.
Same. Well, the first thing. Not a lawyer. Retired teacher of Middle School kiddos
The very idea of Ron Johnson getting indicted makes my heart go pitter pat. There's no way his COS acted on his own. My theory is that Johnson used him as a conduit in case he later needed a fall guy.
Also, I camembert anymore cheese puns!
Good one.
Practicing up on your dad jokes, Jay?
I imagine his COS is not happy with Johnson's attempts to throw him under the bus. I see a future for the Intern and Johnson's COS to be cooperating witnesses - receiving lighter sentences in exchange for spilling the tea.
I don't know that the intern has much legal exposure - she was just the messenger and I don't think she really knew the whole plan.
But she'd be smart to cooperate to ensure that she stays on the good side of the law just in case I'm wrong.
Now that would be wonderful news!
AHHHH! Puns!
I think Jay is practicing up on his dad jokes.
Thank you Jay for this eye opening breakdown of this. You are a gem!
These lying liars and their endless lies. Get the 23 year old intern to be your "bagman." These treasonous people need to be sitting in a courtroom while a jury of their peers listens to how they plotted to overthrow a free and fair election. They should be grateful that hanging is considered cruel and unusual treatment. And what about the other so called congressional "leaders" who supported the attack on the Capitol and the proceedings but ran like scared cats when their MAGA supporters began beating police with barriers and flag poles and ransacked the building.
Remember Boebert texting “1776?”
Never could understand that in all the Jan6 investigations launched, that Ron Johnson wasn't held up as at least an "unindicted co-conspirator", as his fingerprints literally were on the WI fake electors paperwork. Is it too late in the game for a GJ to actually indict Johnson for aiding and abetting a felonious act? Asking for a friend.
It’s not too late, but he will have formidable defenses.
Curious if Eastman dispensing legal advice over the airwaves to a former client(?) Convicted Felon as to which writ to file to SCOTUS to bypass the NY State appellate/appeal process constitutes a violation of GA release agreement (last 8 words) and/or law license suspension?
The GA terms were;
As part of the agreement, Eastman agreed not to communicate “in any way” about the case with any co-defendant or witness except through counsel. The order signed by his lawyer also says Eastman “shall perform no act to intimidate any person known to him or her to be a codefendant or witness in this case or to otherwise obstruct the administration of justice."
Jay you always give me hope and faith that we'll get through this horrible era...we can't stop fighting for democracy. It is way too precious.
Chesebro knew that after a state's electors met and voted and that the vote is certified by the state's legislature (or otherwise according to the state's law) there can be no such thing as "alternate electors or alternate electoral votes". The purpose of the "alternate electoral votes" scheme was not to change the Electoral College vote count in favor of Trump but to generate enough smoke so that Pence would throw up his hands and refuse to open the ballots on Jan 6. It was thought by Chesebro and Eastman that this would throw the election into the House where Trump would win. This would of course be challenged but Trump would be declared the winner by a Trump friendly SCOTUS ala Bush v. Gore.
Trump knew that it was highly unlikely that Pence was going to fold--the VP told him as much. This lead to the attack on the Capital in a last ditch effort to "persuade" Pence to walk away from his Constitutionally required obligation to open and count Electoral College votes.
Trump, Eastman, Chesebro, Guilani, et al, knew the "vote fraud" story was bull-shit. This was an attempt to overthrow the newly-elected President and Vice President.
It’s really that simple. Thanks for this concise answer, Richard.
Keep your eyes peeled for a more refined and sophisticated version of this to crop up in November.
good point. without people like Raffensberger and Katie Hobbs the electoral college vote process is subject to highjack. And I suspect that Trump's team is working very hard to get their supports on local election commissions and other agencies responsible for running and certifying elections.
Dear law and political science students! As you are considering your next internship or first job, please consider putting "No GOP campaign internships or job offers, please!" on your cover letter and/or resume. Make it BIG. Even if you disagree with the Democrats politically, wouldn't you rather do your internship somewhere, where you won't end up in court? Just a thought!
These are the small but aggressive things we can do every day to change the culture.
We all need to be vocal.
We all need to fight when and where we can.
For those of us who remember Nixon’s Watergate, this is somuch déjà vu.
Rereading all the presidents men book now.
Thanks a billion!
Is Troupise one of the people that received a "raise or severance " deal that propublica found? Amazing how it is taking 4 yrs to finally get a legal connection to at least 1 senator.
Good question to look into!