Many who watched the January 6 hearing last night are asking the same thing: While the hearing was compelling factually and emotionally, what legal impact did it have?
This is the time for SOMEONE with a backbone to stop this man. He has lived his whole life doing what he wants, when he wants with no consequences for inappropriate behavior. Just look back through his childhood, his time at the private military style high school in upstate NY, his bullying behavior through his business years and on and on and on. In 2016 people wanted a change in voting, didn't support Clinton, so they decided to try Trump. Enter the con man who led a lot of good people down a rabbit hole with the sole goal of enriching himself and the country be damned. Now it will be hard for these good people to admit they were duped. If he announces another run for the Presidency, it will only be because it gives him the ability to con people out of their money for his "presidential run". I beg the Department of Justice to do their job and make sure this small, small man NEVER is able to run for any office ever again....and jail time should be on the table as well.
I've pointed out in a previous comment that, in my view, the committee has neglected an important fact that shows both intent and considerable planning and preparation: the Pence gallows. To me, that's an elephant in the room, and I have no idea why it has been ignored.
But another huge factor that I can only assume the committee has deliberately avoided - perhaps so as not to appear too conjectural in sticking to the facts - is that any reasonable person, knowing the donald's narcissistic nature, must assume that while watching the insurrection live on TV and barely communicating with anyone other than Giuliani, he was simply enthralled in the adulation, reveling in his power, and enraptured. Sure that's circumstantial and psychological conjecture, but what else could have been going through his mind as he deliberately chose not to act to stop it? Is there any alternative interpretation that could defend or even explain his three hour delay? He was bathing in the glow, mesmerized!
Sure you are not a Trial Attorney Rich? Yes! focus on Pence & his Team in contrast to Co-conspirator No.1. Get the evidence on the Gallows maker & rope purchase. More direct evidence to come.
Thanks for the comment and compliment. Yes, I do hope that DOJ follows up on the gallows and ALL of the evidence of intent. And another elephant in the room that nobody says out loud but that I think should be the main charge: treason.
Another elephant: Why is nobody talking about how *strongly* McConnell, McCarthy, Graham, and others had condemned tRump for the events of January 6th? They unequivocally and angrily placed responsibility at his feet. They wanted him to resign, or they were going to invoke the 25th Amendment. Why is it that now that things have settled down, their lives are no longer in imminent danger, they're all willing to forgive and forget? Pretend that J6th never happened, and that tRump wasn't fully behind the horrific events of that day?
Someone please explain to me why these people are all giving their undying loyalty to tRump again. This is NOT a time for party over country. This is a time for these people to have some sort of character, some sort of backbone, allegiance to their constituents, to the Constitution, not to some guano-crazy wanna-be dictator.
January 6th, I called over to my octogenarian parents' house. My mother answered, and they had no idea what was occurring only 200 miles away. She clicked the channel to the news, and they watched. My father, an army veteran, sat in front of the TV, without speech due to aphasia from a stroke, and cried in silence, my mother said. That alone broke my heart not only for my father who was so proud of his service, but all other servicemembers--active, retired, reserves, discharged--they had to realize that their time spent in the military defending this country was, at that moment in time, WASTED.
What was happening in DC that day was not something anybody could've ever foreseen or protected this country against. The enemy within, our own president was threatening our democracy. tRump's actions--and INaction, enabled by his loyalists, were the acts of a desperate man, a man desperate to remain in power. He wasn't willing to let it go, he LIKED being 'king' and make no mistake, if the coup would have been successful, he'd have gone scorched-earth to change laws to remain in the WH for life. He had (and still has) enough people to support him, for whatever their own agenda (Evangelicals, I'm looking at you) to get behind him and let him do as he pleased as long as he also did their bidding as well. One hand washes the other. SCOTUS comes to mind.
We're in deep poo right now, and frankly, I'm not even sure how deep. What does the future hold for us? We're already in a theocracy, but how far will it go? Will we be able to escape from this country if things get worse? Would we be considered political refugees? Welcomed? Assisted? Or will we be treated like 'illegals' from south of the border are treated here?
My belief is that the people who still support Trump do so because they really hate “the libs” and they see him as their vessel through which to own the libs. The politicians like McCarthy know he is a danger but will kowtow to him to maintain their power, which is their main interest.
None of these supporters are in the least interested in maintaining this democratic Republic. It is all for self-gratification.
I never believed that the party of the old-school Republicans could turn into such a cult of hate. They just hate Dems and all we stand for. And ya know what? If Republicans weren't so radicalized, extreme, and full of hate, if their policies were a little more inclusive and 'user-friendly' then they'd have a better chance at maintaining power. But instead, they have to gerrymander, pass laws that make it impossible for the lesser-fortunate to vote, and use less than honest means to win an election. Tells you all you need to know about today's Republicans, and WHY they need to use these nefarious tactics to win.
Was the pence gallows actually set up to be used as an execution device, or was it just a hostile/threatening symbol? When I saw it on tv, it didn’t look to be actually operational. Maybe I saw it wrong?
Yes, it may just have been a device set up merely to intimidate or express anger, but I have two responses to that. 1) It should still be investigated fully to the extent that can be done through photos or whatever evidence that can be gathered, in order to establish who built it, where, who may have ordered it to be built, and whether it could have actually been used. 2) Whether or not it was intended to be used for a hanging, my point is that the very fact that it was prepared and erected, that had to be done in advance of the insurrection, which meant that there was planning and anticipation that Pence would not come through as they had wanted. So again, it would be important to find out who built this, under whose direction, and how much in advance was this ordered. Frankly, I'd say this type of ghoulish thing has the smell of true nasties like the pardoned-bros, dirty trickster Roger Stone and martial law promoter Mike Flynn, all over it, but there needs to be hard evidence to establish something like that. Thanks for your comment, Gina.
Jay Kuo, if this does go to a jury trial how will they find 12 jurors without one of them being a Trumper? Seems like an impossible task to me. I hope I am wrong.
Martin, that concern will go into the calculation of whether to seek charges against Trump. Personally, I would still want to hold his feet to the fire even considering the distinct possibility of a hung jury. He would take a deal barring him from ever holding public office which could be conceded by him under section 3 of the 14th amendment to avoid a conviction.
Jay, thanks for bearing down on criminal intent. Per the Federal Jury Instruction No: 2167, 18 USC Section 1956 (H), " a conspiracy is an agreement between 2 or more people to join together to join together to ATTEMPT (emphasis added) to accomplish some unlawful purpose.". As the Hearing last night made succinctly clear, as Trump was calling Co-conspirators for 187 minutes, VP Pence was calling military authorities & Others to thwart the widespread Attack as his Team was calling their Loved Ones. The Only requirement for prospective Jurors is a non-prejudicial beating Heart.
What hasn’t anyone mentioned (or did I miss mention of it?) the January 4, 2021 (2 days prior to the insurrection) memo from Acting Sec of Defense Christopher Miller which basically rendered the DC National Guard to nothing more than very benign crowd control and crossing guards??????? The memo outlines what Miller prohibits the DCNG from doing:
1) no weapons or protective gear for head/body,
2) no interaction with “protestors” except in dire self defense,
3) DCNG couldn’t use helicopters or any sort of air assets,
4) couldn’t employ any sort of riot control agents,
5) couldn’t share equipment with law enforcement agencies,
6) couldn’t use intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance (ISR) assets or conduct ISR, or incident, awareness, and assessments activities,
7) couldn’t conduct searches, seizures, arrests, or other similar direct law enforcement activity,
8) couldn’t seek support from any non DCNG units.
Google the memo. I have a screenshot of it, but cannot upload it here. This explains why there weren’t any arrests on JAN6, why there wasn’t any quick support/reinforcements to the police being assaulted, and shows premeditative measures put into place to support the insurrectionists.
All true. And why is it that McCarthy, McConnell, and others who condemned *trump now have either backtracked totally or just keep silent (McConnell insists he would SUPPORT him again if he were to run in 2024!)? Power, pure and simple. They had assumed that the insurrection would have flushed *trump down the toilet - as it should have! - but since his base still has backed him and *trump has actually become the de facto head of the party (at least for now) these chumps figure they can't afford not to back him up - especially McCarthy, who'd banking on becoming Speaker. Power is the name of the game, especially when their base sees themselves as victims getting revenge, and this is the only thing that motivates Republicans.
I don't see Garland having the backbone to go after Trump. Once again, the Teflon Don wins. Our democracy is in deep peril, and there is no one willing to rock the boat. Sad.
kirsten, I think I would have to argue that Garland's hesitation has less to do with backbone than with absolutely irrefutable evidence. One undotted “i” and Trump’s seemingly endless supply of lawyers would tie the entire case up in knots for decades.
trumps insane ...I have been saying this since you all elected him ...I am only an old 85 yr old Canadian but I dont know why you cant see this look at how he talks ...babbles poses mispronunces simple words ...25th should have been called on him years ago
This is the time for SOMEONE with a backbone to stop this man. He has lived his whole life doing what he wants, when he wants with no consequences for inappropriate behavior. Just look back through his childhood, his time at the private military style high school in upstate NY, his bullying behavior through his business years and on and on and on. In 2016 people wanted a change in voting, didn't support Clinton, so they decided to try Trump. Enter the con man who led a lot of good people down a rabbit hole with the sole goal of enriching himself and the country be damned. Now it will be hard for these good people to admit they were duped. If he announces another run for the Presidency, it will only be because it gives him the ability to con people out of their money for his "presidential run". I beg the Department of Justice to do their job and make sure this small, small man NEVER is able to run for any office ever again....and jail time should be on the table as well.
I've pointed out in a previous comment that, in my view, the committee has neglected an important fact that shows both intent and considerable planning and preparation: the Pence gallows. To me, that's an elephant in the room, and I have no idea why it has been ignored.
But another huge factor that I can only assume the committee has deliberately avoided - perhaps so as not to appear too conjectural in sticking to the facts - is that any reasonable person, knowing the donald's narcissistic nature, must assume that while watching the insurrection live on TV and barely communicating with anyone other than Giuliani, he was simply enthralled in the adulation, reveling in his power, and enraptured. Sure that's circumstantial and psychological conjecture, but what else could have been going through his mind as he deliberately chose not to act to stop it? Is there any alternative interpretation that could defend or even explain his three hour delay? He was bathing in the glow, mesmerized!
Sure you are not a Trial Attorney Rich? Yes! focus on Pence & his Team in contrast to Co-conspirator No.1. Get the evidence on the Gallows maker & rope purchase. More direct evidence to come.
Thanks for the comment and compliment. Yes, I do hope that DOJ follows up on the gallows and ALL of the evidence of intent. And another elephant in the room that nobody says out loud but that I think should be the main charge: treason.
Another elephant: Why is nobody talking about how *strongly* McConnell, McCarthy, Graham, and others had condemned tRump for the events of January 6th? They unequivocally and angrily placed responsibility at his feet. They wanted him to resign, or they were going to invoke the 25th Amendment. Why is it that now that things have settled down, their lives are no longer in imminent danger, they're all willing to forgive and forget? Pretend that J6th never happened, and that tRump wasn't fully behind the horrific events of that day?
Someone please explain to me why these people are all giving their undying loyalty to tRump again. This is NOT a time for party over country. This is a time for these people to have some sort of character, some sort of backbone, allegiance to their constituents, to the Constitution, not to some guano-crazy wanna-be dictator.
January 6th, I called over to my octogenarian parents' house. My mother answered, and they had no idea what was occurring only 200 miles away. She clicked the channel to the news, and they watched. My father, an army veteran, sat in front of the TV, without speech due to aphasia from a stroke, and cried in silence, my mother said. That alone broke my heart not only for my father who was so proud of his service, but all other servicemembers--active, retired, reserves, discharged--they had to realize that their time spent in the military defending this country was, at that moment in time, WASTED.
What was happening in DC that day was not something anybody could've ever foreseen or protected this country against. The enemy within, our own president was threatening our democracy. tRump's actions--and INaction, enabled by his loyalists, were the acts of a desperate man, a man desperate to remain in power. He wasn't willing to let it go, he LIKED being 'king' and make no mistake, if the coup would have been successful, he'd have gone scorched-earth to change laws to remain in the WH for life. He had (and still has) enough people to support him, for whatever their own agenda (Evangelicals, I'm looking at you) to get behind him and let him do as he pleased as long as he also did their bidding as well. One hand washes the other. SCOTUS comes to mind.
We're in deep poo right now, and frankly, I'm not even sure how deep. What does the future hold for us? We're already in a theocracy, but how far will it go? Will we be able to escape from this country if things get worse? Would we be considered political refugees? Welcomed? Assisted? Or will we be treated like 'illegals' from south of the border are treated here?
Just some stream-of-consciousness thoughts.
My belief is that the people who still support Trump do so because they really hate “the libs” and they see him as their vessel through which to own the libs. The politicians like McCarthy know he is a danger but will kowtow to him to maintain their power, which is their main interest.
None of these supporters are in the least interested in maintaining this democratic Republic. It is all for self-gratification.
I never believed that the party of the old-school Republicans could turn into such a cult of hate. They just hate Dems and all we stand for. And ya know what? If Republicans weren't so radicalized, extreme, and full of hate, if their policies were a little more inclusive and 'user-friendly' then they'd have a better chance at maintaining power. But instead, they have to gerrymander, pass laws that make it impossible for the lesser-fortunate to vote, and use less than honest means to win an election. Tells you all you need to know about today's Republicans, and WHY they need to use these nefarious tactics to win.
Was the pence gallows actually set up to be used as an execution device, or was it just a hostile/threatening symbol? When I saw it on tv, it didn’t look to be actually operational. Maybe I saw it wrong?
Yes, it may just have been a device set up merely to intimidate or express anger, but I have two responses to that. 1) It should still be investigated fully to the extent that can be done through photos or whatever evidence that can be gathered, in order to establish who built it, where, who may have ordered it to be built, and whether it could have actually been used. 2) Whether or not it was intended to be used for a hanging, my point is that the very fact that it was prepared and erected, that had to be done in advance of the insurrection, which meant that there was planning and anticipation that Pence would not come through as they had wanted. So again, it would be important to find out who built this, under whose direction, and how much in advance was this ordered. Frankly, I'd say this type of ghoulish thing has the smell of true nasties like the pardoned-bros, dirty trickster Roger Stone and martial law promoter Mike Flynn, all over it, but there needs to be hard evidence to establish something like that. Thanks for your comment, Gina.
That is why a Prosecutor collects more direct evidence.
I don't think the gallows the traitors had with them was full sized enough to actually hang someone.
You may be right, but it still took planning and preparation to build and bring on site. That was no last-minute act.
Jay Kuo, if this does go to a jury trial how will they find 12 jurors without one of them being a Trumper? Seems like an impossible task to me. I hope I am wrong.
Martin, that concern will go into the calculation of whether to seek charges against Trump. Personally, I would still want to hold his feet to the fire even considering the distinct possibility of a hung jury. He would take a deal barring him from ever holding public office which could be conceded by him under section 3 of the 14th amendment to avoid a conviction.
Jay, thanks for bearing down on criminal intent. Per the Federal Jury Instruction No: 2167, 18 USC Section 1956 (H), " a conspiracy is an agreement between 2 or more people to join together to join together to ATTEMPT (emphasis added) to accomplish some unlawful purpose.". As the Hearing last night made succinctly clear, as Trump was calling Co-conspirators for 187 minutes, VP Pence was calling military authorities & Others to thwart the widespread Attack as his Team was calling their Loved Ones. The Only requirement for prospective Jurors is a non-prejudicial beating Heart.
What hasn’t anyone mentioned (or did I miss mention of it?) the January 4, 2021 (2 days prior to the insurrection) memo from Acting Sec of Defense Christopher Miller which basically rendered the DC National Guard to nothing more than very benign crowd control and crossing guards??????? The memo outlines what Miller prohibits the DCNG from doing:
1) no weapons or protective gear for head/body,
2) no interaction with “protestors” except in dire self defense,
3) DCNG couldn’t use helicopters or any sort of air assets,
4) couldn’t employ any sort of riot control agents,
5) couldn’t share equipment with law enforcement agencies,
6) couldn’t use intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance (ISR) assets or conduct ISR, or incident, awareness, and assessments activities,
7) couldn’t conduct searches, seizures, arrests, or other similar direct law enforcement activity,
8) couldn’t seek support from any non DCNG units.
Google the memo. I have a screenshot of it, but cannot upload it here. This explains why there weren’t any arrests on JAN6, why there wasn’t any quick support/reinforcements to the police being assaulted, and shows premeditative measures put into place to support the insurrectionists.
All true. And why is it that McCarthy, McConnell, and others who condemned *trump now have either backtracked totally or just keep silent (McConnell insists he would SUPPORT him again if he were to run in 2024!)? Power, pure and simple. They had assumed that the insurrection would have flushed *trump down the toilet - as it should have! - but since his base still has backed him and *trump has actually become the de facto head of the party (at least for now) these chumps figure they can't afford not to back him up - especially McCarthy, who'd banking on becoming Speaker. Power is the name of the game, especially when their base sees themselves as victims getting revenge, and this is the only thing that motivates Republicans.
I don't see Garland having the backbone to go after Trump. Once again, the Teflon Don wins. Our democracy is in deep peril, and there is no one willing to rock the boat. Sad.
kirsten, I think I would have to argue that Garland's hesitation has less to do with backbone than with absolutely irrefutable evidence. One undotted “i” and Trump’s seemingly endless supply of lawyers would tie the entire case up in knots for decades.
Besides indictment, what can be done , if anything, to prevent him from getting on the ballot?
trumps insane ...I have been saying this since you all elected him ...I am only an old 85 yr old Canadian but I dont know why you cant see this look at how he talks ...babbles poses mispronunces simple words ...25th should have been called on him years ago
This is absolutely astounding!! It was written so well, I had to keep taking breaks from reading and take deep breaths, intense!