You’ve captured my response to the debate perfectly. Vance the smiling cunning devil and earnest Walz angry at what he was hearing, yet still able to be real and rational. I thought the question of whether Walz was really in China during Tiananmen Square was a bit of nonsense. Trying to catch my Guv out on a pretty irrelevant mistake or exaggeration while everything Vance said was disingenuous or a bold-faced lie? C’mon.
That whole chinese bullshit was just that. Nobody cares about dates from 30 years ago, half the people watching weren’t even born yet. CBS continues to provide disservice to the beloved ‘horse race’ by calling that steaming pile of horseshit ‘journalism’. With ZERO context, ZERO. This is not an issue for anybody when there are REAL ISSUES to discuss. CBS pulled that directly out of their ass. No mention of the many, many republicon transgressions and lies in real time but the dates of when Tim Walz was in China is important to this election…NOT !
....I bet they were told to find something negative to chide Walls with, considering Vance's side is a proverbial shite show. As Kamala says, "AmIRight"?!
I feel like they had to come up with some sort of gotcha question for Walz, since many of the questions directed to Vance put him on the defensive. They didn't want to appear to be asking Vance "harder" questions while lobbing softballs to Walz.
I was thinking that some of those questions were pretty tough for Vance. Then I realized they were only tough because he had to lie to answer them. Period.
We know who JD Vance is. We know what he will do. He MUST NOT be allowed access to power. It's shameful that these people are able to be given the opportunity to engage and have any success in an attempt to get elected in this country. The American people who do not turn away from these egregious, completely dishonest and void of ethics, seditious hateful, are not thinking with any level of effort or honesty. The press has given nothing but protective cover for these dangerous actors at every opportunity that should have been used to expose them with the plethora of evidence as to the threat to the people these thugs are. We will beat them at the polls!
I can’t wait to watch Trump and Vance lose epically to a woman of color.
I can’t wait to wear this Kamala removes stubborn orange stains hoodie on November 5th! 👇
Speaking of Ohio .. well sort of -- everyone needs to donate to Sherrod Brown to KEEP him in the Senate. In polls (I know!) he's behind a MAGAt. If able and willing, https://www.sherrodbrown.com/
To paraphrase Walt Whitman, “If you stop this day and night with me, shall we possess the origin of all lies?” The foundational lie of America is White Supremacy. It is asserting itself with violent psychological force now. A thoughtful meander, ending with a new creation myth, the origin of stories themselves, and an urgent call for us to forge a new, inclusive story for a better future for all.
Well, corporate media did their usual reaction...rather than sanewashing a cretinous tRump, they "presentation-washed" a slick and polished Hillbilly. He won coz he wasn't tRump, end of.
He also varnished trump right up. He spoke in full (lies-ridden) sentences so he ALMOST seemed "normie". Jay nailed it with the cognitive dissonance between what he said and how he looked. Orwellian!
I have two thoughts related to your excellent comment:
1. At one point while Vance was smiling and lying I posted on a live chat that his smirk was starting to seem evil to me.
2. I guess the question about Walz' mis-statement ended up deflecting like "what about him" questions, and the moderators immediately followed it up by questioning JD's statements from the past about Trump. Both men have had to change what they said, but one was exponentially worse. And a GOP talking point against Walz was deflated. He admitted he misspoke. Never heard of Trump or Vance doing that!
You did better than we did - within the first minute of him speaking, we decided to watch "Only Murders In the Building" - the nonsense about his family - his wonderful mawmaw who stayed in an abusive relationship stuff is wearing. And tho' we learned later that ABC was fact-checking, the lack of it last night was nonsense.
It’s telling that the #1 complaint from Republicans about the debate is Fact-Checking. They’ve listened to and spewed lies so long that it’s just normal to them. Calling them out on it is not acceptable to them.
To paraphrase Walt Whitman, “If you stop this day and night with me, shall we possess the origin of all lies?” The foundational lie of America is White Supremacy. It is asserting itself with violent psychological force now. A thoughtful meander, ending with a new creation myth, the origin of stories themselves, and an urgent call for us to forge a new, inclusive story for a better future for all.
To paraphrase Walt Whitman, “If you stop this day and night with me, shall we possess the origin of all lies?” The foundational lie of America is White Supremacy. It is asserting itself with violent psychological force now. A thoughtful meander, ending with a new creation myth, the origin of stories themselves, and an urgent call for us to forge a new, inclusive story for a better future for all.
The mainstream press betrays us, the voting public, at just about every turn — by failing to call out every lie that the Orange Man and his minions tell endlessly. The only thing Vance proved yesterday is that he is eminently qualified to take a position of heir apparent to the MAGA lying machine. May God save this Nation from all enemies foreign and Trumplican.
If Vance and his party really want to “help women,” they could quit bothering them and let them have control over their own bodies. Being creeps, that doesn’t ever occur to them.
If anyone missed Jamison Foser’s piece from yesterday, I highly recommend it. He treats Vance with the baseline contempt he deserves—like, WhoTAF is JD Vance to be where he is? WTAF has he ever done that anyone outside his family knows who he is? Foser points out that “He wrote a bestselling book” doesn’t cut it: He’d had two pieces and a profile in the NYT and one in the WSJ before his book came out, and David Brooks’s column was devoted to his book on publication day. The “liberal media” Vance loves to complain about completely created him and foisted him on us, and the wingnut welfare machine took it from there. He’s the person third most likely to be president by the time 2026 rolls around and he’s accomplished literally nothing of relevant importance.
If one of my novels became such a bestseller that it put me in line for the presidency, I'd worry about the fate of this country almost as much as I do now, lol!
Vince is a completely different kind of sociopath than Trump, because he comes across as sane and intelligent (to those who are easily deceived) and doesn’t foam at the mouth. That is why he is so very dangerous. Also, being a person who has worked and volunteered around horses for decades, I much prefer horseshit to JD Vance.
Alex Jones/ Michael Flynn discussed making TFG a martyr. His base is necessary to make a win (if they succeed) LOOK legitimate. This would explain the assassination attempts Republicans try to pin on Democrats.
There’s also the possibility of ‘the don’ serving prison time. If he goes to prison, Vance will (likely) serve as President.
The Republicans can also use the 25th Amendment to ‘oust’ DJT. I wouldn’t put it past the GQP to do it.
Yes - I've been thinking this for awhile now...*Rump as a stooge for the power brokers in the shady corners. He is disposable, having nothing to offer but his irritating and frankly dangerous clown act. What is also disturbing is how involved the *Rump boys are in this campaign. What is in it for them, do you suppose??? I have questions...........
This is two fold. If Trump wins Vance will take over somehow if Trump becomes a problem. Very bad since Vance will rubber stamp every Heritage wants. If Trump loses, he is a goner BUT the problem will not be solved because it will live on in the much younger Vance and the Heritage Foundation will not give up. They will be just going into the next round. I wished there would laws on the books which protect this country against threats like that.
What was crystal clear to me is that it is critical that our friends, family, neighbors, colleagues and especially young people (who are key to democracy winning) understand what is at stake and not be persuaded by the media's sanewashing, normalizing and sanitizing of Trump/Vance/MAGA. It's on all of US to make sure to spread the word which is why my GenZ daughter and I launched Donuts+Democracy🍩🗳️ a few days ago!
🍩We have already partnered with 29 colleges (and counting) in battleground states/districts and HBCUs with more being added every day. The premise is simple - students host a GOTV event - Your Donut - Your Vote - Your Future - and we fund the donuts.
🗳️We test-piloted this program in 2022 midterms in NV and it was magic. College kids love free donuts even more than TikTok and provide an easy, fun way to connect, register, and inform students about the importance of their vote! And at $2 a donut is the most effective and least expensive GOTV strategy. Plus young voters are the key to winning and have the most room for growth.
🍩 To learn more and support our efforts (we need to raise $30K in 7 days and in 3 days hrs have raised $18K!):
Yes, Vance is a more controlled liar than trump , but the lies are the same. And Vance is scarier and more dangerous because he is like a chameleon, changes persona depending on whom he is talking to and what he is talking about. But make no mistake, he is the anointed one of the Heritage Foundation, and their puppet to establish their Pr0ject 2O25 as the authoritarian Christian Nationalist manifesto for our nation. Think about incoherent trump and the 25th Amendment. Vance is a dangerous man that will be manipulated for the power he is being promised.
Before the debate I asked the moderators in a Substack note to deliver this as Vance's first question: "Can you walk us through why you are here instead of former Vice President Pence?"
I guess they didn't see my note (overall I think the moderators did relatively well as corporate media stooges go).
But then, the corporate press buried the lede when they ignored Tim Walz's answer to the question at the end of the debate when he said, "Mike Pence made the decision to certify that election."
That should have been the headline in every corporate media story. Instead the media praised how how slick JD Vance is. I expect the fawning to turn into "he's the 2028 frontrunner" any day now.
Vance’s civil, even friendly demeanor, presented while calmly lying through his teeth, is a chilling portent of an Orwellian future beyond Trump. And his performance managed to snap a shiny veneer over his true political fangs.
Let's be clear: Anyone who thinks anything other than Trump won't be in the White House on January 20 will be resolved by the outcome of the November 5 election needs a brain transplant. Ifwe're really lucky and smash them every time, we might see final victory around the presidential election of 2040.
So true. We can hope that the EC Compact (enough states to provide 270 votes agree that they will send electors in accordance with the national majority vote) gets done sometime soon. They're over 2/3 of the way to the goal. This is why voting on the state level is so important. We have to regain the state legislative majority we had before Rahm Emmanuel lost the 2010 election for us.
I will forever resent Rahm Emanuel for that. Exactly who did he think was going to vote for Democrats without a 50 states strategy?
The 2010 elections were deeply damaging in so many ways. Redistricting led to rampant gerrymandering, and in 2013 the Supreme Court gutted section 5 of the Voting Rights Act which just added gasoline to things. And now also thanks to the Supreme Court, political gerrymandering is ok and to be shrugged at, while racial gerrymandering is hanging by a thread. Ugh.
And all of this is exacerbated by the fact that not one Democratic presidential candidate has lost the popular vote since 1992. (That the 2004 vote was decided as it was is pretty immaterial since he wouldn’t have been a president running for re-election in a popular vote scenario, so.)
The point remains. The Supreme Court literally would not be composed as it is now, without a popular vote president.
When Vance was talking about abortion issues, I couldn’t help but think he was one of the guys in power in “A Handmaid’s Tale”. Maybe this is the prequel…
I find it telling that both Vance and Trump have married women who are, in their own world views, second class citizens with few or no rights. Their wives fit perfectly into the class of people they would, if they could, repackage into wholly owned slaves - immigrants, females, and non-white persons.
You’ve captured my response to the debate perfectly. Vance the smiling cunning devil and earnest Walz angry at what he was hearing, yet still able to be real and rational. I thought the question of whether Walz was really in China during Tiananmen Square was a bit of nonsense. Trying to catch my Guv out on a pretty irrelevant mistake or exaggeration while everything Vance said was disingenuous or a bold-faced lie? C’mon.
That whole chinese bullshit was just that. Nobody cares about dates from 30 years ago, half the people watching weren’t even born yet. CBS continues to provide disservice to the beloved ‘horse race’ by calling that steaming pile of horseshit ‘journalism’. With ZERO context, ZERO. This is not an issue for anybody when there are REAL ISSUES to discuss. CBS pulled that directly out of their ass. No mention of the many, many republicon transgressions and lies in real time but the dates of when Tim Walz was in China is important to this election…NOT !
....I bet they were told to find something negative to chide Walls with, considering Vance's side is a proverbial shite show. As Kamala says, "AmIRight"?!
I feel like they had to come up with some sort of gotcha question for Walz, since many of the questions directed to Vance put him on the defensive. They didn't want to appear to be asking Vance "harder" questions while lobbing softballs to Walz.
I was thinking that some of those questions were pretty tough for Vance. Then I realized they were only tough because he had to lie to answer them. Period.
We know who JD Vance is. We know what he will do. He MUST NOT be allowed access to power. It's shameful that these people are able to be given the opportunity to engage and have any success in an attempt to get elected in this country. The American people who do not turn away from these egregious, completely dishonest and void of ethics, seditious hateful, are not thinking with any level of effort or honesty. The press has given nothing but protective cover for these dangerous actors at every opportunity that should have been used to expose them with the plethora of evidence as to the threat to the people these thugs are. We will beat them at the polls!
I can’t wait to watch Trump and Vance lose epically to a woman of color.
I can’t wait to wear this Kamala removes stubborn orange stains hoodie on November 5th! 👇
https://libtees-2.creator-spring.com/listing/votek?product=227
It’s going to be a glorious day!
We must stand firm and united, to defend our freedoms.
Speaking of Ohio .. well sort of -- everyone needs to donate to Sherrod Brown to KEEP him in the Senate. In polls (I know!) he's behind a MAGAt. If able and willing, https://www.sherrodbrown.com/
Oh, not T-shirt person again God so boring
Yes, Vance is what the devil must look like!
Exactly! MOSF 19.15: TrumpVance and their Proposed Advance of the Plantation of Lies and Weirdness https://eastwindezine.com/mosf-19-15-trumpvance-and-their-proposed-advance-of-the-plantation-of-lies-and-weirdness/
To paraphrase Walt Whitman, “If you stop this day and night with me, shall we possess the origin of all lies?” The foundational lie of America is White Supremacy. It is asserting itself with violent psychological force now. A thoughtful meander, ending with a new creation myth, the origin of stories themselves, and an urgent call for us to forge a new, inclusive story for a better future for all.
Well, corporate media did their usual reaction...rather than sanewashing a cretinous tRump, they "presentation-washed" a slick and polished Hillbilly. He won coz he wasn't tRump, end of.
He also varnished trump right up. He spoke in full (lies-ridden) sentences so he ALMOST seemed "normie". Jay nailed it with the cognitive dissonance between what he said and how he looked. Orwellian!
I have two thoughts related to your excellent comment:
1. At one point while Vance was smiling and lying I posted on a live chat that his smirk was starting to seem evil to me.
2. I guess the question about Walz' mis-statement ended up deflecting like "what about him" questions, and the moderators immediately followed it up by questioning JD's statements from the past about Trump. Both men have had to change what they said, but one was exponentially worse. And a GOP talking point against Walz was deflated. He admitted he misspoke. Never heard of Trump or Vance doing that!
You did better than we did - within the first minute of him speaking, we decided to watch "Only Murders In the Building" - the nonsense about his family - his wonderful mawmaw who stayed in an abusive relationship stuff is wearing. And tho' we learned later that ABC was fact-checking, the lack of it last night was nonsense.
When watching the Tiananmen Square massacre unfold from home on a TV screen, I felt like I was there.
It’s telling that the #1 complaint from Republicans about the debate is Fact-Checking. They’ve listened to and spewed lies so long that it’s just normal to them. Calling them out on it is not acceptable to them.
Right! MOSF 19.15: TrumpVance and their Proposed Advance of the Plantation of Lies and Weirdness https://eastwindezine.com/mosf-19-15-trumpvance-and-their-proposed-advance-of-the-plantation-of-lies-and-weirdness/
To paraphrase Walt Whitman, “If you stop this day and night with me, shall we possess the origin of all lies?” The foundational lie of America is White Supremacy. It is asserting itself with violent psychological force now. A thoughtful meander, ending with a new creation myth, the origin of stories themselves, and an urgent call for us to forge a new, inclusive story for a better future for all.
You know, you really only need to post this once ... we all saw it the first time.
A smooth operator to be sure. His purpose for Trump? To put lipstick on a pig.
And eyeliner.
👁️
And then sideline the pig to grab power for himself and his billionaire backers.
Ohhhhh, he smells opportunity. We're not the only ones who see a lunatic's last, dying days.
Could we not malign pigs? How about lipstick on a lying fascist traitor?!
If you think a smooth liar is a winner of a debate, then JDV is a winner. But I am not voting for someone who is a better liar.
He is lying in support of the foundational lie of America. And most people apparently can’t tell the truth from a lie. We are vulnerable to bs. MOSF 19.15: TrumpVance and their Proposed Advance of the Plantation of Lies and Weirdness https://eastwindezine.com/mosf-19-15-trumpvance-and-their-proposed-advance-of-the-plantation-of-lies-and-weirdness/
To paraphrase Walt Whitman, “If you stop this day and night with me, shall we possess the origin of all lies?” The foundational lie of America is White Supremacy. It is asserting itself with violent psychological force now. A thoughtful meander, ending with a new creation myth, the origin of stories themselves, and an urgent call for us to forge a new, inclusive story for a better future for all.
Stop spamming this thread!
The mainstream press betrays us, the voting public, at just about every turn — by failing to call out every lie that the Orange Man and his minions tell endlessly. The only thing Vance proved yesterday is that he is eminently qualified to take a position of heir apparent to the MAGA lying machine. May God save this Nation from all enemies foreign and Trumplican.
If Vance and his party really want to “help women,” they could quit bothering them and let them have control over their own bodies. Being creeps, that doesn’t ever occur to them.
If anyone missed Jamison Foser’s piece from yesterday, I highly recommend it. He treats Vance with the baseline contempt he deserves—like, WhoTAF is JD Vance to be where he is? WTAF has he ever done that anyone outside his family knows who he is? Foser points out that “He wrote a bestselling book” doesn’t cut it: He’d had two pieces and a profile in the NYT and one in the WSJ before his book came out, and David Brooks’s column was devoted to his book on publication day. The “liberal media” Vance loves to complain about completely created him and foisted him on us, and the wingnut welfare machine took it from there. He’s the person third most likely to be president by the time 2026 rolls around and he’s accomplished literally nothing of relevant importance.
If one of my novels became such a bestseller that it put me in line for the presidency, I'd worry about the fate of this country almost as much as I do now, lol!
His book was/is sh*t
The movie too.
Metacritic score: 38 out of 100. Rotten Tomatoes: 24%
Excellent read💯💙
Vince is a completely different kind of sociopath than Trump, because he comes across as sane and intelligent (to those who are easily deceived) and doesn’t foam at the mouth. That is why he is so very dangerous. Also, being a person who has worked and volunteered around horses for decades, I much prefer horseshit to JD Vance.
Oops, I meant Vance. I wish the app would allow corrections to typos.
Does he really deserve such a correction?
No, but I don’t want to insult any gentlemen named Vince, plus I’m a copy editor. 😂 You do crack me up, Charles.
Food for thought:
What if tRUMP is considered disposable?
My2Cents:
Alex Jones/ Michael Flynn discussed making TFG a martyr. His base is necessary to make a win (if they succeed) LOOK legitimate. This would explain the assassination attempts Republicans try to pin on Democrats.
There’s also the possibility of ‘the don’ serving prison time. If he goes to prison, Vance will (likely) serve as President.
The Republicans can also use the 25th Amendment to ‘oust’ DJT. I wouldn’t put it past the GQP to do it.
Yes - I've been thinking this for awhile now...*Rump as a stooge for the power brokers in the shady corners. He is disposable, having nothing to offer but his irritating and frankly dangerous clown act. What is also disturbing is how involved the *Rump boys are in this campaign. What is in it for them, do you suppose??? I have questions...........
The Heritage Foundation is more than willing to let 🍊🤡 play golf and maybe smile with 👍 while Vance implements Project XXV.
my thought as well
I’m wondering the same thing after last night.
My thoughts too.
This is two fold. If Trump wins Vance will take over somehow if Trump becomes a problem. Very bad since Vance will rubber stamp every Heritage wants. If Trump loses, he is a goner BUT the problem will not be solved because it will live on in the much younger Vance and the Heritage Foundation will not give up. They will be just going into the next round. I wished there would laws on the books which protect this country against threats like that.
What was crystal clear to me is that it is critical that our friends, family, neighbors, colleagues and especially young people (who are key to democracy winning) understand what is at stake and not be persuaded by the media's sanewashing, normalizing and sanitizing of Trump/Vance/MAGA. It's on all of US to make sure to spread the word which is why my GenZ daughter and I launched Donuts+Democracy🍩🗳️ a few days ago!
🍩We have already partnered with 29 colleges (and counting) in battleground states/districts and HBCUs with more being added every day. The premise is simple - students host a GOTV event - Your Donut - Your Vote - Your Future - and we fund the donuts.
🗳️We test-piloted this program in 2022 midterms in NV and it was magic. College kids love free donuts even more than TikTok and provide an easy, fun way to connect, register, and inform students about the importance of their vote! And at $2 a donut is the most effective and least expensive GOTV strategy. Plus young voters are the key to winning and have the most room for growth.
🍩 To learn more and support our efforts (we need to raise $30K in 7 days and in 3 days hrs have raised $18K!):
https://open.substack.com/pub/democratsdeliver/p/donuts-democracy-magic?r=51f18&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
Yes, Vance is a more controlled liar than trump , but the lies are the same. And Vance is scarier and more dangerous because he is like a chameleon, changes persona depending on whom he is talking to and what he is talking about. But make no mistake, he is the anointed one of the Heritage Foundation, and their puppet to establish their Pr0ject 2O25 as the authoritarian Christian Nationalist manifesto for our nation. Think about incoherent trump and the 25th Amendment. Vance is a dangerous man that will be manipulated for the power he is being promised.
Meself,I rather think of jdv as a wolf in sheep's clothing.He tries to present himself as trustworthy,but in reality,he is anything but.
And for real,God help us if this guy would become president if/when tfg checks out or removed from office.Perish the thought...!
Before the debate I asked the moderators in a Substack note to deliver this as Vance's first question: "Can you walk us through why you are here instead of former Vice President Pence?"
I guess they didn't see my note (overall I think the moderators did relatively well as corporate media stooges go).
But then, the corporate press buried the lede when they ignored Tim Walz's answer to the question at the end of the debate when he said, "Mike Pence made the decision to certify that election."
That should have been the headline in every corporate media story. Instead the media praised how how slick JD Vance is. I expect the fawning to turn into "he's the 2028 frontrunner" any day now.
Vance’s civil, even friendly demeanor, presented while calmly lying through his teeth, is a chilling portent of an Orwellian future beyond Trump. And his performance managed to snap a shiny veneer over his true political fangs.
Let's be clear: Anyone who thinks anything other than Trump won't be in the White House on January 20 will be resolved by the outcome of the November 5 election needs a brain transplant. Ifwe're really lucky and smash them every time, we might see final victory around the presidential election of 2040.
This would so much easier if we didn’t have the electoral college cudgel. And that’s exactly the point.
So true. We can hope that the EC Compact (enough states to provide 270 votes agree that they will send electors in accordance with the national majority vote) gets done sometime soon. They're over 2/3 of the way to the goal. This is why voting on the state level is so important. We have to regain the state legislative majority we had before Rahm Emmanuel lost the 2010 election for us.
I will forever resent Rahm Emanuel for that. Exactly who did he think was going to vote for Democrats without a 50 states strategy?
The 2010 elections were deeply damaging in so many ways. Redistricting led to rampant gerrymandering, and in 2013 the Supreme Court gutted section 5 of the Voting Rights Act which just added gasoline to things. And now also thanks to the Supreme Court, political gerrymandering is ok and to be shrugged at, while racial gerrymandering is hanging by a thread. Ugh.
And all of this is exacerbated by the fact that not one Democratic presidential candidate has lost the popular vote since 1992. (That the 2004 vote was decided as it was is pretty immaterial since he wouldn’t have been a president running for re-election in a popular vote scenario, so.)
The point remains. The Supreme Court literally would not be composed as it is now, without a popular vote president.
When Vance was talking about abortion issues, I couldn’t help but think he was one of the guys in power in “A Handmaid’s Tale”. Maybe this is the prequel…
He makes my skin crawl. His ability to lie with such ease and agility is nauseating.
I find it telling that both Vance and Trump have married women who are, in their own world views, second class citizens with few or no rights. Their wives fit perfectly into the class of people they would, if they could, repackage into wholly owned slaves - immigrants, females, and non-white persons.
Very insightful observation!!!
Of J.D., my father would have said "He's slicker'n snot on a gunbarrel."
Slick Willy. 🤮