Musk is, to all intents and purposes, the head of the US space program, therefore a US Government contractor. For a US Government contractor to actively conspire with our enemies against our allies is nothing short of treason, and his actions should be treated as such.
Ok. I don’t want this guy anywhere near our tools used for defense. Get him out!
And second step should be to nationalize StarLink.
This one decision by this egotistical, immature, selfish, morbidly wealthy, man-child was devastating to the Ukrainian defense of their homeland. How many deaths could have been prevented by taking out the Russian Navy early on?
When the MuskRat meets his maker, I am sure he will be offered the best accommodations as is his due. The best. The hottest. The one right inside the fire.
EM is dead to me.
I do not support any of his ventures:
Don’t own and never will own a Tesla. (Soon to be renamed as “CarX”)
Heartily concur with the nationalizing of Starlink. Turn it over to the Army for surface force coordination and retain the proficient operators with a pay raise. Also, nationalize SpaceX as a significant national asset for space exploration. That or constraining him from any further influence over it technically or for direction or manage and operations.
It's highly unlikely that the US intelligence services were unaware of Musk's actions vis-à-vis the Starlink caper directed against Ukrainian forces, but to date, there appears to be little or no consequences to his blatant interferences in a sovereign government's military actions. Not going all tinfoil-hat here, but I'm wondering if there wasn't some below-the-radar tacit encouragement, or turning of a blind eye by the US, in order to indeed forestall a violent Russian response.
Elon Musk...dear god. Not only the Starlink business, but his jihad against the ADL...it just never stops. You know, if there really were a "deep state", Musk long ago would have been handled "with extreme prejudice", and the world would have been rid of this malignancy...but there isn't, and he is still with us.
Elon Musk is a very dangerous person to be doing business with and the US gov't should not have put all their eggs in his Starlink basket. He's as volatile as Trump and equally untrustworthy. He is also a danger to the Jewish community with his unfettered acquiescence of anti-Semitism on X.
I don't think there's any doubt that Musk violated the Logan act, the DOJ & FBI counter intelligence needs to investigate now! He also needs to have his security credentials revoked, and his contract with NASA removed.
I am SO DONE. I want Trump, the entire Team Crazy, and Elon Musk to start getting treated by our legal system the way it treats POCs, immigrants, and women seeking abortions in the red states. I am TIRED of all this foot shuffling and appeals flying around. These people are thugs. They are domestic terrorists. There is plenty of evidence. In the immortal words of the entire cast of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", "GET ON WITH IT!"
I understand the frustration. We play by the rules, they flout them repeatedly. But if begin to throw those rules out and proceed extralegally, we would be down a path with no guardrails whatsoever. That’s why, hard as it is, we must continue to uphold the rule of law, even when it doesn’t achieve what we want as quickly as we’d like.
My parents live in Ukraine. In Zaporizhzhya. Where the counter-offensive is going on right now. They are getting shelled almost every hour of every day. I never know whether they are dead or alive. I am certain some of the death and destruction inflicted on Ukraine by Russia could have been avoided, had that initial attack against Russian fleet proceeded as scheduled. And yet.... here we have this one prick with the power his kind of money provides, who just... flipped a switch. And tens of thousands of people died as the result. Pardon me for feeling nostalgic for a good old drawing and quartering.
There is a category of crimes where, as soon as sufficient evidence is presented, there should be no bail - the suspects are arrested due to the gravity of the risk they present to the national and international security and they STAY THERE until the jury of their peers decides what to do with them. The higher ranking the suspect, the more access they are likely to have to sensitive information, the sooner they get apprehended. With great power comes great responsibility is an old cliche - but it should apply.
Our prayers and best wishes to you and your family, Maria. It is stories such as yours that fuel our desire to get the Republicans out of the equation, and offer all the support to Ukraine we have.
Thank you, Daniel. All of my grandparents were decorated WWII veterans. My maternal grandmother - a Holocaust survivor. Two more grandparents - Siege of Leningrad survivors. They must be rolling in their graves over what's happening - it's like the world hadn't learned a damn thing. This war should be treated with every bit of seriousness, on par with WWII. The impacts are so far-reaching, so immense, so global in nature, historians will be writing about this for generations to come.
That would be nice. I have been posting video news summaries for the war since the day it started - which happened to be my birthday. My dad is a former military man, so he helps me understand certain aspects of the strategy used by Ukrainian Armed Forces. But.... it's a tough grind. The frustrating bit is that Ukrainian government has been asking for support for a year, and then it took months to actually get it, and now everyone is complaining that counter-offensive is slow.
There was, however, a rather brilliant operation executed earlier today, when Ukrainian troops flew a big Ukrainian flag over Donetsk, Russian troops started shooting at it, thus, giving away their location. Another village taken - within walking distance of Donetsk airport.
Graham is a bad actor, but the combination of the burden of proof and the prospect of removal made indicting him a bad choice. What let the rest off the hook remains a mystery for now. Musk is another bad actor, but the government has created the situation where he can exercise power. Indicting him won’t fix that. Only increasing our technology capabilities will do it and that could be a hard sell.
Lindsey Graham actually did us all a huge favor. When he stupidly denied key illegal election-pressure aspects of his non-recorded Nov. 2020 call to Raffensperger, the GA Sec. of State then decided to record the infamous call with Trump et al. (My supposition.) We now have an undeniable record of Trump's treason, thanks to Lindsey. Graham is a slimy, perfidious snake who only cares about himself. Period.
Judge Steve Jones' opinion in Meadows remove motion is well worth a read, as the judge answers the question regarding if any one of the "overt acts" which could be construed as within "color of office" is enough to grant removal to federal court. In his opinion it's the "totality of actions" that was determinative, and those were political in nature, serving the tRump campaign rather than any "official", federally sanctioned duties. Solidly argued throughout, and very unlikely to be overturned in my opinion.
And citing the much derided and ignored Hatch Act was key...Meadows rudely dismissed Hatch, more or less saying it was irrelevant, as it rarely is enforced...still on the books, bub, and YOU were a serial violator.
I've read it. I like the way he combined federalism and the Hatch Act to basically say that presidents have no authority to interfere with how states conduct their elections--and thus much less a president's campaign. (He doesn't make any statement that Meadows violated the Hatch Act, just uses it to show that acting for a campaign cannot be part of anyone's duties under "color of law"--Fani Willis's argument.)
Judge Jones also cites Meadows' own testimony, where he virtually admits to acting for the campaign...Marky Mark was warned that he could put himself in legal jeopardy by testifying under oath...rolled the dice and it's snake-eyes!
Can you comment further on the Logan Act (18 U.S. Code § 953 )? When HAS it been used, and with what results? I recall it being bruited about re: Michael Flynn. Could it be used in any way to preclude Musk from control of Space X if the latter is to continue to have government contracts? And/or Starlink? Could a fine big enough to allow NASA itself to set up a similar network work? Is there anything in the various Musk related contracts with the government that make conviction of its head be breach of those contracts? It does seem that there is a nexus between Musk the Person and the ""corporate" decision to blank out Starlink to drag the corporation into it.
I don’t believe that the DoJ will bring the Logan Act back to prosecute Musk. But the principles behind it could be used to reconsider many of the contracts that the government has with Musk’s companies. I don’t think the government can force a change in control of his companies, however.
Rick Perry was also an integral player in the attempted coup...his phones were seized a few years ago. I'm not clear as to whether he's still under investigation.
I believe that the 11th Circuit and SCOTUS will affirm Judge Jones's correct decision...this case doesn't advance their partisan ideology, and allows them to maintain the veneer of judicial independence.
As to Musk, he's been undermining national security for years...his shutdown of Starlink in Ukraine was reported at the time. I've no idea why he's allowed to break Consent Decrees, engage in stock manipulation, suppress dissident voices at the behest of China, India, Iran, Russia, undermine vaccines, promote stochastic terrorism, etc.
There are other EV manufacturers who would benefit from government subsidies, Bezos is developing his own satellite technology. Musk has a great advantage in space technology, but I've yet to hear a convincing argument about the billions we spend in space exploration vs the desperate demand for shoring up infrastructure to withstand the imminent/ongoing climate catastrophes.
Musk’s citizenship and business licenses should be immediately suspended for an investigation. Musk should be held in custody during the investigation, because he is a security threat and flight risk. In comparison, the very suggestion of interference by a non-American journalist, Julian Assange, has him a political fugitive for life. Then there’s whistleblower Edward Snowden, now having had to escape to Russia. I see Musk’s interference as even more direct than either of these other two. Also, he has no “cover” from the 1st Amendment or Whistleblower Act, like they arguably may. It’s a BIG and dangerous mistake to allow him to be the leader in America’s space programs. From what I’ve seen, Musk is an unfriendly foreign operative, undermining the US Government and is privy to far too much security information.
How did Musk know about the Ukrainian covert drone attack that was planned? Did he have privy to high security defense information? This is outrageous and we have only ourselves to blame.
I saw an interview with Isaacson (for whom I have had much respect in the past) earlier today on CBS, and got the distinct feeling he was trying to make Musk out to be something far less dangerous to the world than he actually is. Of course he's trying to sell books, but this one I have no intention to buy.
Musk is, to all intents and purposes, the head of the US space program, therefore a US Government contractor. For a US Government contractor to actively conspire with our enemies against our allies is nothing short of treason, and his actions should be treated as such.
The first step should be to review his clearance as a national security contractor.
Ok. I don’t want this guy anywhere near our tools used for defense. Get him out!
And second step should be to nationalize StarLink.
This one decision by this egotistical, immature, selfish, morbidly wealthy, man-child was devastating to the Ukrainian defense of their homeland. How many deaths could have been prevented by taking out the Russian Navy early on?
When the MuskRat meets his maker, I am sure he will be offered the best accommodations as is his due. The best. The hottest. The one right inside the fire.
EM is dead to me.
I do not support any of his ventures:
Don’t own and never will own a Tesla. (Soon to be renamed as “CarX”)
Don’t use and never will use X-Twitter.
Never plan to have anything to do with SpaceX.
Make The MuskRat irrelevant!
It will break him.
Heartily concur with the nationalizing of Starlink. Turn it over to the Army for surface force coordination and retain the proficient operators with a pay raise. Also, nationalize SpaceX as a significant national asset for space exploration. That or constraining him from any further influence over it technically or for direction or manage and operations.
Excellent ideas!
It's highly unlikely that the US intelligence services were unaware of Musk's actions vis-à-vis the Starlink caper directed against Ukrainian forces, but to date, there appears to be little or no consequences to his blatant interferences in a sovereign government's military actions. Not going all tinfoil-hat here, but I'm wondering if there wasn't some below-the-radar tacit encouragement, or turning of a blind eye by the US, in order to indeed forestall a violent Russian response.
Elon Musk...dear god. Not only the Starlink business, but his jihad against the ADL...it just never stops. You know, if there really were a "deep state", Musk long ago would have been handled "with extreme prejudice", and the world would have been rid of this malignancy...but there isn't, and he is still with us.
Elon Musk is a very dangerous person to be doing business with and the US gov't should not have put all their eggs in his Starlink basket. He's as volatile as Trump and equally untrustworthy. He is also a danger to the Jewish community with his unfettered acquiescence of anti-Semitism on X.
I don't think there's any doubt that Musk violated the Logan act, the DOJ & FBI counter intelligence needs to investigate now! He also needs to have his security credentials revoked, and his contract with NASA removed.
I am SO DONE. I want Trump, the entire Team Crazy, and Elon Musk to start getting treated by our legal system the way it treats POCs, immigrants, and women seeking abortions in the red states. I am TIRED of all this foot shuffling and appeals flying around. These people are thugs. They are domestic terrorists. There is plenty of evidence. In the immortal words of the entire cast of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", "GET ON WITH IT!"
I understand the frustration. We play by the rules, they flout them repeatedly. But if begin to throw those rules out and proceed extralegally, we would be down a path with no guardrails whatsoever. That’s why, hard as it is, we must continue to uphold the rule of law, even when it doesn’t achieve what we want as quickly as we’d like.
My parents live in Ukraine. In Zaporizhzhya. Where the counter-offensive is going on right now. They are getting shelled almost every hour of every day. I never know whether they are dead or alive. I am certain some of the death and destruction inflicted on Ukraine by Russia could have been avoided, had that initial attack against Russian fleet proceeded as scheduled. And yet.... here we have this one prick with the power his kind of money provides, who just... flipped a switch. And tens of thousands of people died as the result. Pardon me for feeling nostalgic for a good old drawing and quartering.
There is a category of crimes where, as soon as sufficient evidence is presented, there should be no bail - the suspects are arrested due to the gravity of the risk they present to the national and international security and they STAY THERE until the jury of their peers decides what to do with them. The higher ranking the suspect, the more access they are likely to have to sensitive information, the sooner they get apprehended. With great power comes great responsibility is an old cliche - but it should apply.
Our prayers and best wishes to you and your family, Maria. It is stories such as yours that fuel our desire to get the Republicans out of the equation, and offer all the support to Ukraine we have.
Thank you, Daniel. All of my grandparents were decorated WWII veterans. My maternal grandmother - a Holocaust survivor. Two more grandparents - Siege of Leningrad survivors. They must be rolling in their graves over what's happening - it's like the world hadn't learned a damn thing. This war should be treated with every bit of seriousness, on par with WWII. The impacts are so far-reaching, so immense, so global in nature, historians will be writing about this for generations to come.
My wish is that we are now at the final chapter the historians will be writing about.
That would be nice. I have been posting video news summaries for the war since the day it started - which happened to be my birthday. My dad is a former military man, so he helps me understand certain aspects of the strategy used by Ukrainian Armed Forces. But.... it's a tough grind. The frustrating bit is that Ukrainian government has been asking for support for a year, and then it took months to actually get it, and now everyone is complaining that counter-offensive is slow.
There was, however, a rather brilliant operation executed earlier today, when Ukrainian troops flew a big Ukrainian flag over Donetsk, Russian troops started shooting at it, thus, giving away their location. Another village taken - within walking distance of Donetsk airport.
Exactly, Maria!
Graham is a bad actor, but the combination of the burden of proof and the prospect of removal made indicting him a bad choice. What let the rest off the hook remains a mystery for now. Musk is another bad actor, but the government has created the situation where he can exercise power. Indicting him won’t fix that. Only increasing our technology capabilities will do it and that could be a hard sell.
Lindsey Graham actually did us all a huge favor. When he stupidly denied key illegal election-pressure aspects of his non-recorded Nov. 2020 call to Raffensperger, the GA Sec. of State then decided to record the infamous call with Trump et al. (My supposition.) We now have an undeniable record of Trump's treason, thanks to Lindsey. Graham is a slimy, perfidious snake who only cares about himself. Period.
Judge Steve Jones' opinion in Meadows remove motion is well worth a read, as the judge answers the question regarding if any one of the "overt acts" which could be construed as within "color of office" is enough to grant removal to federal court. In his opinion it's the "totality of actions" that was determinative, and those were political in nature, serving the tRump campaign rather than any "official", federally sanctioned duties. Solidly argued throughout, and very unlikely to be overturned in my opinion.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/09/08/us/meadows-removal-ruling-in-georgia.html (link also to PDF version)
He basically adopted the reasoning of both Fani Willis and some amici who argued standard. It’s the better argument, and I hope it holds.
And citing the much derided and ignored Hatch Act was key...Meadows rudely dismissed Hatch, more or less saying it was irrelevant, as it rarely is enforced...still on the books, bub, and YOU were a serial violator.
I've read it. I like the way he combined federalism and the Hatch Act to basically say that presidents have no authority to interfere with how states conduct their elections--and thus much less a president's campaign. (He doesn't make any statement that Meadows violated the Hatch Act, just uses it to show that acting for a campaign cannot be part of anyone's duties under "color of law"--Fani Willis's argument.)
Judge Jones also cites Meadows' own testimony, where he virtually admits to acting for the campaign...Marky Mark was warned that he could put himself in legal jeopardy by testifying under oath...rolled the dice and it's snake-eyes!
Thank you, Lance. Your opinion (and Jay's) carries weight.
Musk also actively endorsed a campaign rife with antisemitic rhetoric by Nazis and white supremacists to ban the ADL from Twitter. Here is a good take on it. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/musk-antisemitism-anti-defamation-league-twitter/675235/ Anyone who remains on Twitter really should rethink what they are participating in.
Elon Musk has clearly taken a side in Russia’s assault on Ukraine, and it is not the same side as this country’s government.
Can you comment further on the Logan Act (18 U.S. Code § 953 )? When HAS it been used, and with what results? I recall it being bruited about re: Michael Flynn. Could it be used in any way to preclude Musk from control of Space X if the latter is to continue to have government contracts? And/or Starlink? Could a fine big enough to allow NASA itself to set up a similar network work? Is there anything in the various Musk related contracts with the government that make conviction of its head be breach of those contracts? It does seem that there is a nexus between Musk the Person and the ""corporate" decision to blank out Starlink to drag the corporation into it.
I don’t believe that the DoJ will bring the Logan Act back to prosecute Musk. But the principles behind it could be used to reconsider many of the contracts that the government has with Musk’s companies. I don’t think the government can force a change in control of his companies, however.
I didn't think so. But one can always dream.
Rick Perry was also an integral player in the attempted coup...his phones were seized a few years ago. I'm not clear as to whether he's still under investigation.
I believe that the 11th Circuit and SCOTUS will affirm Judge Jones's correct decision...this case doesn't advance their partisan ideology, and allows them to maintain the veneer of judicial independence.
As to Musk, he's been undermining national security for years...his shutdown of Starlink in Ukraine was reported at the time. I've no idea why he's allowed to break Consent Decrees, engage in stock manipulation, suppress dissident voices at the behest of China, India, Iran, Russia, undermine vaccines, promote stochastic terrorism, etc.
There are other EV manufacturers who would benefit from government subsidies, Bezos is developing his own satellite technology. Musk has a great advantage in space technology, but I've yet to hear a convincing argument about the billions we spend in space exploration vs the desperate demand for shoring up infrastructure to withstand the imminent/ongoing climate catastrophes.
This makes my blood boil. Musk is such a danger to the world.
Starlink needs to be nationalized. Musk will pitch a hissy fit, but our military cannot be run by South African immigrant with ties to Russia.
Musk’s citizenship and business licenses should be immediately suspended for an investigation. Musk should be held in custody during the investigation, because he is a security threat and flight risk. In comparison, the very suggestion of interference by a non-American journalist, Julian Assange, has him a political fugitive for life. Then there’s whistleblower Edward Snowden, now having had to escape to Russia. I see Musk’s interference as even more direct than either of these other two. Also, he has no “cover” from the 1st Amendment or Whistleblower Act, like they arguably may. It’s a BIG and dangerous mistake to allow him to be the leader in America’s space programs. From what I’ve seen, Musk is an unfriendly foreign operative, undermining the US Government and is privy to far too much security information.
How did Musk know about the Ukrainian covert drone attack that was planned? Did he have privy to high security defense information? This is outrageous and we have only ourselves to blame.
A very important question.
I saw an interview with Isaacson (for whom I have had much respect in the past) earlier today on CBS, and got the distinct feeling he was trying to make Musk out to be something far less dangerous to the world than he actually is. Of course he's trying to sell books, but this one I have no intention to buy.