How is it that people like Kari Lake can get away with threatening the President and the Special Council? I thought things like that were illegal. I almost hope Judge Cannon screws up right out of the gate so we can move on from her sooner rather than later. What a mess.
It feels like it should be illegal, but the threat lacks both specificity and immediacy, and so the law says it’s not incitement to violence. And that makes a lot of sense because people say things from a distance that they (normally) don’t mean as promoting violence (like, maybe Trump should stand too close to a window around his pal Vladimir) but to others sounds like it. Very difficult to show intent and causality. That’s why stochastic terrorism is now their weapon of choice, because they have all the crazy people on their side who will actually act upon their words.
Interesting. Wouldn't inciting violence be a crime or could she just say she wasn't serious and isn't responsible for the whack jobs in the cult, of which she is a member, do or not?
Ms. Lake should be in Miami at the head of the GQP protesters. Leading the protesters. If it is peaceful then that is good. Otherwise, she should get taste of what a mob can do.
As far as Judge Cannon is concerned the 11th Court of Appeals will be looking over her shoulder. This is her opportunity to prove she can be a fair and impartial justice.
I keep wondering the same thing. If I went to my neighbors house, banged on the door,and shouted all those things, would that not be considered assault?
@Mark Heyerman. I agree. Tfg is already spewing/fomenting to his base, and no judge's order is going to stop him. The fact that he is once again monetizing his indictment should add to the reasons to "lock him up".
@Sharon, a trial judge can impose a gag order. Cannon would be unlikely to do so, but if he calls for retribution, which his lawyers are probably dreading he will do, because he is uncontrollable, she would be extremely remiss in not entering such an order.of course, then the MAGAs will get more threatening if that happens.
Right? How is this even remotely legal? You know when someone says "it's not a threat" - the exact opposite is true. It IS a threat, it is intended as such, and the person saying it is fully aware of the intent.
I am struck by the absurdity of members of Congress, and the MAGAt faithful coming to his defense before they even knew what the charges were. I am further struck by the admission of these same people that, once the indictment was unsealed and available for anyone/everyone to read, they admit they have not read it/do not intend to read it, while still defending the fPotus.
It seems to me that any intelligent, clear thinking person (most especially our elected officials in Washington) would/should want to know all the facts before rising to fPotus’ defense. But . . . .here we are.
Except that the rest of the world isn't buying it... we are watching what is going on in the US, and tbh we are surprised that a) it took so long for him to be charged and b) there is still a chance that he might get off
A "jury of your peers" sounds like a good idea... up until you take a look at your peers and realize that half of them ate too much paste in elementary school
It is what he does. It is what he has to do to hang onto the gavel. His "Freedumb Caucus" peeps are gonna be mad for a long time about the debt limit/budget bill, and if he doesn't act like he's one of them on this, he'll be gone in a heartbeat. What makes you think he's gonna grow a spine now?
It’s far WORSE then hard core politics. It’s attacking the rule of law and the national security of our country and it’s extremely dangerous. You saying it’s politics does not make it so. McCarthy is every bit the traitor that tffg is. They all need to do kindergarten over again and be blacklisted from positions of power. They sold their souls to Satan. People no doubt have and will continue to die because of Trump throwing our most expensive (in terms of human cost) intelligence around like trash.
They have been a cult for 8 years. As a lawyer, I know that when people have strongly held false beliefs, if you try to argue the actual facts or the law with them, they will simply defend those false beliefs even more.
At least 28 if you put the start at Gingrich and his "Contract with America". We can reasonably argue that it started 40+ years ago with Reagan, or even goes back to Nixon.
@Kevin - re Reagan: grrrr.... I worked at UCLA during his reign. He defunded entire departments. He was ruinous in every way for this country. I will never forgive him.
I know what you mean. I fell for him hook, line and sinker. My only excuse is that I was a teenager at the time. Ten years later, I figured out how wrong I was.
That's good news, in a way. Many MAGA people are likely to realize their error. Of course, some will be beyond help - I knew somebody who, in the 1980s, still was waiting for Hitler to be rehabilitated and vindicated.
Reagan was a greater crook than Nixon ever could have dreamt of being
I always laugh when "moderate Republicans" complain that Trump and the MAGAts are "corrupting the party of Reagan" or "betraying Reagan's legacy" - Trump and his ilk are continuing Reagan's work, and I am sure that he is sitting down there in Hell toasting them with a mug of children's tears
Thank you for the clip. There may be less than a handful of Republicans in our current Congress that have a single speck of decency. Pretty much the entire party has none. It is grotesquely disturbing that they are defending tffg after what we now know he has done to our national security
I liken it to a mechanic who took a few tools home for side jobs on occasion but didn't return them, then gets fired, so grabs all the tools he really wanted out of the shop on his way out the door before flicking a match on a deliberately placed pile of oil soaked rags.
President Biden did not indict Trump. Merrick Garland and the DOJ did not indict Trump. Jack Smith did not indict Trump. Trump was indicted by a Florida Grand Jury made of ordinary citizens. Repeat to those who are misguided until their ears burst!
Jack Smith and his team should request the same type of protective order that Judge Merchan imposed on TFG in the New York hush money case. TFG has already proven with his "truths" and speeches that he needs to STFU.
I am wondering, after watching George Stephanopoulus, why no one pointed out that the reason Trump is being indicted repeatedly now is that he was a sitting president until a few months ago. Also, that he announced his run for president as soon as he left office, which was cover for the shit storm he knew would be coming his way.
Jack, I do believe you have your "Rabbit" Now pull it out of your hat! And Kari Lake should be charged with Threating a Judicial Process in not Obstructing it.
Going to have to lay in a new supply of pop corn - legal matters move slowly for a reason, but the whirlwind around this one is likely to go very badly for the MAGA minded.
The issues are clear to those of us who are not MAGAts. I am sure even more will be revealed. What I am wondering is whether Kari Lake will find herself in legal trouble if the rabble get roused and come out to cause trouble in Florida. I have said that seeing consequences like big fines and prison time for people is a deterrent to those who will not follow the law just because they should. I am wondering when the Georgia criminal charges are going to come down. I am still bothered by the fact that Trump can be tried, convicted and sentenced to do time, and he can still run for and be our president and then pardon himself. That is the part of the law that Trump seems most familiar with. I hope that Federalist Society judge Aileen Cannon has to behave herself.
1. Once a jury has been empaneled, she can simply dismiss the case outright.
2. Once the prosecution has made its case, she can grant a motion for a directed verdict of acquittal.
If she does either one of those things (and no one can stop her), it's done. The laws concerning double jeopardy mean Trump could not be re-tried, and the government could not appeal.
If Cannon is willing to publicly sell herself to Trump (say, in hopes of a SCOTUS appointment?), there is not one damn thing anyone can do about it.”
Can you please comment on the potential likelihood of the above?
@Thomas Hill, despite Judge Cannon’s history in the civil case seeking a special master, I don’t think she would want to be impeached for doing anything crazy such as your Facebook friend suggested.
That kid in Maryland is in jail for putting stuff on line. What is the difference? He has not even been convicted yet. Trump deserves to be treated like others that have betrayed this country.
How is it that people like Kari Lake can get away with threatening the President and the Special Council? I thought things like that were illegal. I almost hope Judge Cannon screws up right out of the gate so we can move on from her sooner rather than later. What a mess.
It feels like it should be illegal, but the threat lacks both specificity and immediacy, and so the law says it’s not incitement to violence. And that makes a lot of sense because people say things from a distance that they (normally) don’t mean as promoting violence (like, maybe Trump should stand too close to a window around his pal Vladimir) but to others sounds like it. Very difficult to show intent and causality. That’s why stochastic terrorism is now their weapon of choice, because they have all the crazy people on their side who will actually act upon their words.
Won't anyone rid me off this troublesome priest errr judge?
Interesting. Wouldn't inciting violence be a crime or could she just say she wasn't serious and isn't responsible for the whack jobs in the cult, of which she is a member, do or not?
Oh, no - she SAID it wasn't meant as a threat. We should of course believe her. Of course...
Sad. Possibly violent. So many with guns want to use them, it seems.
Ms. Lake should be in Miami at the head of the GQP protesters. Leading the protesters. If it is peaceful then that is good. Otherwise, she should get taste of what a mob can do.
As far as Judge Cannon is concerned the 11th Court of Appeals will be looking over her shoulder. This is her opportunity to prove she can be a fair and impartial justice.
I keep wondering the same thing. If I went to my neighbors house, banged on the door,and shouted all those things, would that not be considered assault?
A couple of folks have gotten themselves shot lately - for doing exactly that. Apparently SOME 2nd amendmenters consider that a threat.
In the same way, trump should really be held pending trial, rather than be allowed to roam free, spreading fascism.
As regards Cannon, I have a feeling she'll be very careful this time around. I'll probably be wrong.
@Mark Heyerman. I agree. Tfg is already spewing/fomenting to his base, and no judge's order is going to stop him. The fact that he is once again monetizing his indictment should add to the reasons to "lock him up".
@Sharon, a trial judge can impose a gag order. Cannon would be unlikely to do so, but if he calls for retribution, which his lawyers are probably dreading he will do, because he is uncontrollable, she would be extremely remiss in not entering such an order.of course, then the MAGAs will get more threatening if that happens.
@Robert - thanks. I'd forgotten. Although I won't hold my breath. 🙄
TRUMP: Stand back and Stand by.
LAKE: Hold my beer.
She wants to be his vp
Right? How is this even remotely legal? You know when someone says "it's not a threat" - the exact opposite is true. It IS a threat, it is intended as such, and the person saying it is fully aware of the intent.
That’s what I was going to ask! Kari Lake threatened the American public with violence! I guess we are “there”.
I am struck by the absurdity of members of Congress, and the MAGAt faithful coming to his defense before they even knew what the charges were. I am further struck by the admission of these same people that, once the indictment was unsealed and available for anyone/everyone to read, they admit they have not read it/do not intend to read it, while still defending the fPotus.
It seems to me that any intelligent, clear thinking person (most especially our elected officials in Washington) would/should want to know all the facts before rising to fPotus’ defense. But . . . .here we are.
McCarthy saying that *Biden* indicted trump is beyond the pale.
He is blatantly lying to the world 😡
Except that the rest of the world isn't buying it... we are watching what is going on in the US, and tbh we are surprised that a) it took so long for him to be charged and b) there is still a chance that he might get off
A "jury of your peers" sounds like a good idea... up until you take a look at your peers and realize that half of them ate too much paste in elementary school
Ha ha ha. Out loud.
At least half...maybe more.
@Carsten - 🤣🤣🤣
It is what he does. It is what he has to do to hang onto the gavel. His "Freedumb Caucus" peeps are gonna be mad for a long time about the debt limit/budget bill, and if he doesn't act like he's one of them on this, he'll be gone in a heartbeat. What makes you think he's gonna grow a spine now?
AGAIN!
It’s hard core politics. McCarthy is trying to cling to power. He knows Biden stayed out of this decision.
It’s far WORSE then hard core politics. It’s attacking the rule of law and the national security of our country and it’s extremely dangerous. You saying it’s politics does not make it so. McCarthy is every bit the traitor that tffg is. They all need to do kindergarten over again and be blacklisted from positions of power. They sold their souls to Satan. People no doubt have and will continue to die because of Trump throwing our most expensive (in terms of human cost) intelligence around like trash.
The Republican Party of Trump is now a cult. No critical thinking required.
They have been a cult for 8 years. As a lawyer, I know that when people have strongly held false beliefs, if you try to argue the actual facts or the law with them, they will simply defend those false beliefs even more.
Eight? Try 23+
At least 28 if you put the start at Gingrich and his "Contract with America". We can reasonably argue that it started 40+ years ago with Reagan, or even goes back to Nixon.
@Kevin - re Reagan: grrrr.... I worked at UCLA during his reign. He defunded entire departments. He was ruinous in every way for this country. I will never forgive him.
I know what you mean. I fell for him hook, line and sinker. My only excuse is that I was a teenager at the time. Ten years later, I figured out how wrong I was.
That's good news, in a way. Many MAGA people are likely to realize their error. Of course, some will be beyond help - I knew somebody who, in the 1980s, still was waiting for Hitler to be rehabilitated and vindicated.
Reagan was a greater crook than Nixon ever could have dreamt of being
I always laugh when "moderate Republicans" complain that Trump and the MAGAts are "corrupting the party of Reagan" or "betraying Reagan's legacy" - Trump and his ilk are continuing Reagan's work, and I am sure that he is sitting down there in Hell toasting them with a mug of children's tears
This is heartbreaking, and is tearing our country apart.
The MAGAts do not need to read it. They rely on Fox, OAN and Trump to tell them what they want to hear. Facts DO NOT MATTER.
Exactly as Trump listened to Fitton and not the lawyers because Fitton was telling him what he wanted to hear.
They have their own alternative facts.
Another fine post you've gotten us in to Jay and ....
In honor of Joseph Welch's June 9, 1954 epic dismantle of Joe McCarthy
" Have you no decency sir? "
And in honor of William L. Shirer - with my edits
“The cardinal error of the Germans (Americans) who opposed Nazism (Authoritarianism) was their failure to unite against it.”
Ever the optimist, how many folks were inspired to seek professions in law and public service as a result of McCarthyism, Racism, Nixon, etc ?
We're all here reading and sharing our thoughts with Jay Kuo for this singularly important reason.
How many more folks will be inspired by the Rise and Fall of Trump.
It's on all of us to fix this !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svUyYzzv6VI
"Ever the optimist, how many folks were inspired to seek professions in law and public service as a result of McCarthyism, Racism, Nixon, etc ?"
Or volunteering or ... The answer is many. That's why the Republicans have to resort to extreme gerrymandering.
Thank you for the clip. There may be less than a handful of Republicans in our current Congress that have a single speck of decency. Pretty much the entire party has none. It is grotesquely disturbing that they are defending tffg after what we now know he has done to our national security
Perhaps a well-placed reminder on red Twitter with regard to J6 these are the current stats (per NPR)
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/965472049/the-capitol-siege-the-arrested-and-their-stories
Number of people charged, federal: 1,025
Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 594
Number of individuals who have had jury or bench trials: 93
The number with mixed verdicts: 36
The number convicted on all charges: 56
The number acquitted on all charges: 1
Number of people sentenced: 532
The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 61
The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 90
The number of cases dismissed: 5 federal
I liken it to a mechanic who took a few tools home for side jobs on occasion but didn't return them, then gets fired, so grabs all the tools he really wanted out of the shop on his way out the door before flicking a match on a deliberately placed pile of oil soaked rags.
Thanks for explaining what trump is always going on about with the "socks case" (I could only think of the Clintons' cat).
I now have the image of trump stuffing classified documents into his adult diaper. Thanks for ruining my Sunday!
President Biden did not indict Trump. Merrick Garland and the DOJ did not indict Trump. Jack Smith did not indict Trump. Trump was indicted by a Florida Grand Jury made of ordinary citizens. Repeat to those who are misguided until their ears burst!
Jack Smith and his team should request the same type of protective order that Judge Merchan imposed on TFG in the New York hush money case. TFG has already proven with his "truths" and speeches that he needs to STFU.
I am wondering, after watching George Stephanopoulus, why no one pointed out that the reason Trump is being indicted repeatedly now is that he was a sitting president until a few months ago. Also, that he announced his run for president as soon as he left office, which was cover for the shit storm he knew would be coming his way.
Jack, I do believe you have your "Rabbit" Now pull it out of your hat! And Kari Lake should be charged with Threating a Judicial Process in not Obstructing it.
Jay, just one correction. The unhinged nut job you quoted is “Kari” Lake.
Going to have to lay in a new supply of pop corn - legal matters move slowly for a reason, but the whirlwind around this one is likely to go very badly for the MAGA minded.
The issues are clear to those of us who are not MAGAts. I am sure even more will be revealed. What I am wondering is whether Kari Lake will find herself in legal trouble if the rabble get roused and come out to cause trouble in Florida. I have said that seeing consequences like big fines and prison time for people is a deterrent to those who will not follow the law just because they should. I am wondering when the Georgia criminal charges are going to come down. I am still bothered by the fact that Trump can be tried, convicted and sentenced to do time, and he can still run for and be our president and then pardon himself. That is the part of the law that Trump seems most familiar with. I hope that Federalist Society judge Aileen Cannon has to behave herself.
A friend posted this on facebook:
“If the case remains with her, she can:
1. Once a jury has been empaneled, she can simply dismiss the case outright.
2. Once the prosecution has made its case, she can grant a motion for a directed verdict of acquittal.
If she does either one of those things (and no one can stop her), it's done. The laws concerning double jeopardy mean Trump could not be re-tried, and the government could not appeal.
If Cannon is willing to publicly sell herself to Trump (say, in hopes of a SCOTUS appointment?), there is not one damn thing anyone can do about it.”
Can you please comment on the potential likelihood of the above?
@Thomas Hill, despite Judge Cannon’s history in the civil case seeking a special master, I don’t think she would want to be impeached for doing anything crazy such as your Facebook friend suggested.
I do hope you are correct.
If that’s true (yikes) surely The prosecution are aware of, and ready for, that possibility.
Frightening thought. Not just as is, but because it seems a very real possibility in these times.
That kid in Maryland is in jail for putting stuff on line. What is the difference? He has not even been convicted yet. Trump deserves to be treated like others that have betrayed this country.