Words fail me. The idea that the House crazies think they'll benefit by tossing the entire world economy off a cliff is beyond my feeble comprehension. We're already on damn thin ice with accelerating climate change. Crashing through the debt ceiling is like cutting off your feet to help you escape an approaching forest fire. Sure hope Biden can pull off a miracle.
You are DEFINITELY not alone in this. It boggles the mind that some people can be so selfish, so absorbed in their own grab for power, that they would hold the entire country and the world hostage to their interests.
Wonder if they’re getting direct guidance and encouragement from Putin/Orban that they will all come out of this just fine? Or on their own do they think this is a good way to grab power? Difficult to comprehend.
Thanks for tackling this deeply frightening & dismal subject. I'm not at all optimistic about any of the possible 'remedies/solutions' coming to pass in the next 2 weeks. But as a 73 year-old, barely scraping by on Social Security Disability (my sole source of Income), & unable to comply with the "work requirements" the Freedom Caucus hopes to put on those of us on "Public Assistance Programs" (along with thousands of other 'Seniors' !!!); I'm shaken to the core by what's going on in DC & what may happen, any minute now ...
Marcia, please don't worry about work requirements. No one is suggesting that disabled 73 year olds must return to work. The issue is raising age limits already in place for able-bodied workers from 49 to 55. You would not be affected.
This whole "crisis" is so irresponsible and just plain cruel to the most vulnerable. Kevin McCarthy is solely responsible for it, and needs to be held accountable.
I don't think McCarthy survives as Speaker in any case, and I'm certain Biden will have to involve the 14th Amendment. I wish he'd do it sooner than later to relieve anxiety, both in the markets and among those Americans that still have two brain cells to rub together. But you've given a good explanation of why he will wait until the last minute to act.
The President doesn't really have the power to unilaterally declare that the debt ceiling is unconstitutional. He can say it, but it would immediately be be challenged, and ultimately decided by the Supreme Court after an indefinite period of litigation.
Democrats are united in supporting the discharge petition, meaning only 5 or 6 Republican votes will be needed to bring a bill to the floor and pass it. So if anyone here wants to do something more than just talk about this, you can call or write to the following Republicans urging them to sign the petition when it comes up:
John Curtis (UT-3), Ashley Hinson (IA-2), Brian Fitzpatrick (PA-1), David Joyce (OH 14), Victoria Spartz (IN-5), Don Bacon (NE-2), Mike Gallagher (WI-8), Andrew Garbarino (NY-2), Nancy Mace (SC-1), Dan Newhouse (WA-4), and David Valadao (CA-22)
Just scroll down past the parts about our network's effort to remove and replace Speaker McCarthy, and you'll find all the info you need, including short bios of each.
Thank you for this information. I will write/call tomorrow and will send out info to friends who will do the same. I have no idea if it will work, but it is better to write than hand wring.
Manchin & Sinema are Senators, but no doubt they would be holdouts on anything good for the country. One was my Rep from the redder part of ME, Jared Golden (😡) and the other was from HI
I believe there is a world where Biden could have gotten ahead of the chaos agents. The Democratic Party could finally understand how to control a narrative and start directly communicating with the American people that if a default happens, it's by choice. Calling out that the far right has only been interested in chaos is a truth that the middle already believes. It's been driving elections across the country for the last three years.
Biden should be using the bully pulpit to continually remind the American people that the far right in the house is only interested in the chaos that provides them more opportunities for power. They are not interested in doing their jobs and passing legislation to help Americans. They are performers just like in the WWE, creating a story that their fans are winning. But it's all a work, not actual work.
I agree that messaging can always be stronger. But we’re coming from a place where messaging is siloed, and the reasonable arguments are always more nuanced than the unreasonable ones. Given that messaging isn’t our strong suit, we shouldn’t always wring our hands over the fact that the message is not getting through, especially in an age of Fox News and social media disinformation.
Instead, we in the public need to do all we can to inform and spread the word among reasonable people about what is happening. The leadership in DC can’t do it alone, and they have a media that is failing because it is “both sides-ing” this badly, equating hostage takers with budget negotiators.
I think the simplest and most effective message should be GOP = Chaos. Most Americans just want things to be normal and orderly. Don’t underestimate the importance of that when someone steps into a voting booth.
It just dawned on me - aren’t the salaries, pensions, medical plans, etc. of all the Federal employees (including all Congressional Representatives and Senators) debts of the Federal Government? So wouldn’t their salaries, etc. be unpaid as well as Social Security if the government defaults due to the debt limit? Although this may only have an adverse affect on Congressional retirees as those in office probably are subsidized by their corporate backers. (Being snarky on that last sentence.)
Federal employees would not receive checks, that is true. That includes Congress, presumably. Perhaps it should mean their salaries first, though there is a big question over whether the Treasury has any ability to parse payments this way.
Sadly, not being paid would only affect the staff and the (probably Dem) congresscritters that aren’t being lavished with massive bribes (“campaign contributions or gifts from rich hate-filled “friends”). The GQP scumwads would use it to repeat their victim messaging to drum up contributions from their willfully ignorant sheep.
Keep in mind that most (although not all) members of Congress are very wealthy people. MTG is said to be worth between about 1 million and $56 million (depending on the source; the $56 million number is from Forbes). Forbes says that most of her income is from government contracts to her construction company.
She was fined more than here complete Congressional take-home pay for defying the mask mandate, and hasn't exactly died of starvation.
This is so well thought through and, as always, so clearly presented. Thank you, especially for the explanation of why Biden cannot now just pull the 14th amendment trigger.
I’d just like to offer another oft-stated reason why republicans would be ok with blowing up the economy - it would create yet another opportunity, probably the biggest ever, for the super-rich to vacuum up everything in sight . . . to gain exponentially greater wealth and control and weaken faith in small-d, democratic governance. The travails of “little people” are of no concern.
Biden seems to understand that there is a short game and a long game. The short game could involve either invoking the 14th Amendment or the parallel process in the House for a discharge petition (you did not mention that).
Biden and those around him seem also to be playing a long game. The Freedom Caucaus could well earn the badge of the "Fiscally Reckless Caucus" and that will really hurt at election time. We will see how masterfully or not each side plays this out.
I agree. But I’m just wondering if the long game is the intention - looking to show how badly the Republicans govern (or not) for the next election. If the 14th Amendment is not invoked, and the economy crashes, they may try to blame it on Biden but I think the Democrats can make a big deal out of how they tried to prevent it and/or the devastating economic consequences that would affect millions of people - probably more than the Covid did. But I can’t believe that the 14th Amendment would not be invoked as a last resort.
Isn't there language in the Constitution about what to do if ne'er-do-wells try to take over the government or try to destroy it? Can those in the MAGA/RightWing/BatShitCrazy phalanx, at some point, just be told to "Get Off My Lawn?" (Putin must be loving this; maybe even helping, btw.)
Thank you for the time and trouble you have expended on this topic.
I concur 100% with everything that you say. Sometime back I came to perceive, rightly or wrongly, that the Republicans are not going to budge because they see this as a political win-win. Inside the beltway the only thing anyone cares about is the politics of an issue. If it hurts anyone, they are only concerned how that might affect them politically. Kevin McCarthy has placed everything he has on the altar of his speakership. If he gives in one iota to the Freedom Caucus he will lose that speakership, and so he will not give in. If Joe Biden caves, Kevin wins. If Joe Biden invokes the 14th amendment, it's a huge power-grab and executive overreach and maybe even an impeachment, and so Kevin wins again. If the economy tanks, it will have occurred on Biden's watch and the Republicans are confident they can spin it so as to lay the blame at his feet. (I am fairly certain that that is why Trump is telling the GOP to hold fast.) If you believe that logic, then Kevin still wins. The only losers are all of the rest of us, and the Republicans have not cared about the rest of us since Ronald Reagan took office.
This is their end game; their now or never moment. This is what Grover Norquist has been fighting for for decades, and American billionaires funding super PACs and campaigns over. They are trying to wrestle our government into the bathtub and drown it.
I have been saying this for months and multiple people told me I was wrong. "The GOP would never do that." Um, yes they would, they are crazy. They have been planning this default for months and they aren't gonna give it up now at the last minute. They are gonna take it all the way.
“Folks, Biden can't call their bluff because Republicans aren't bluffing.”
Nonsense.
Ok, they aren’t bluffing in the sense that they’re very eager and anxious to crash the economy. Doing so, and blaming Biden for what they would’ve done, is the only hope they have of winning in 2024.
But they are very much bluffing in that they’ll be able to pull it off. As president, Biden can have the Treasury Department continue to pay America’s bills. He can make it very clear that that’s exactly what he’s going to do and if Republicans don’t like it, well, then, “Tough.”
Threats to not pass a law raising the debt ceiling or are as hollow as a tantrum-throwing toddler threatening their parent if they don’t get a cookie. The parent (the president) can just continue to do what they’re going to do and the child has absolutely no power to stop them.
The President is legally bound by at least two parts of the Constitution and the Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 (which being more recent than the Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917 that created the debt ceiling, supersedes it) to pay America’s bills.
Republicans can’t pass a change to the Constitution on their own nor, with no control of the Senate and barely any of the House, can they pass something to change the 1974 Act.
Biden can follow the laws he swore to uphold and Republicans have no way to force him to do otherwise.
"Friday's request for judicial intervention stems from a lawsuit—which cites the 14th Amendment—that attorneys for the National Association of Government Employees (NAGE) filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Massachusetts on May 8. While Biden and Yellen are named as defendents, the aim of the case is to have the debt limit law declared unconstitutional.
"This litigation is both an effort to protect our members from illegal furloughs and to correct an unconstitutional statute that frequently creates uncertainty and anxiety for millions of Americans," NAGE national president David Holway said earlier this month. "The debt ceiling has become a political football for certain members of Congress. If Congress will not raise the debt limit as it has nearly 80 times before without condition, it leaves no constitutional choice for the president."
"Congress' failure of will to act is not justification to violate the Constitution," added Holway, just days after his union endorsed Biden for reelection. "But it is the reason this case had to be filed to protect the American public, federal employees, and our Constitution."
Words fail me. The idea that the House crazies think they'll benefit by tossing the entire world economy off a cliff is beyond my feeble comprehension. We're already on damn thin ice with accelerating climate change. Crashing through the debt ceiling is like cutting off your feet to help you escape an approaching forest fire. Sure hope Biden can pull off a miracle.
You are DEFINITELY not alone in this. It boggles the mind that some people can be so selfish, so absorbed in their own grab for power, that they would hold the entire country and the world hostage to their interests.
Wonder if they’re getting direct guidance and encouragement from Putin/Orban that they will all come out of this just fine? Or on their own do they think this is a good way to grab power? Difficult to comprehend.
This was a great explanation. Thanks for your thoughtful explanation. Fingers crossed this goes well.
And toes!
And eyes!
Thanks for tackling this deeply frightening & dismal subject. I'm not at all optimistic about any of the possible 'remedies/solutions' coming to pass in the next 2 weeks. But as a 73 year-old, barely scraping by on Social Security Disability (my sole source of Income), & unable to comply with the "work requirements" the Freedom Caucus hopes to put on those of us on "Public Assistance Programs" (along with thousands of other 'Seniors' !!!); I'm shaken to the core by what's going on in DC & what may happen, any minute now ...
Marcia, please don't worry about work requirements. No one is suggesting that disabled 73 year olds must return to work. The issue is raising age limits already in place for able-bodied workers from 49 to 55. You would not be affected.
This whole "crisis" is so irresponsible and just plain cruel to the most vulnerable. Kevin McCarthy is solely responsible for it, and needs to be held accountable.
I don't think McCarthy survives as Speaker in any case, and I'm certain Biden will have to involve the 14th Amendment. I wish he'd do it sooner than later to relieve anxiety, both in the markets and among those Americans that still have two brain cells to rub together. But you've given a good explanation of why he will wait until the last minute to act.
The President doesn't really have the power to unilaterally declare that the debt ceiling is unconstitutional. He can say it, but it would immediately be be challenged, and ultimately decided by the Supreme Court after an indefinite period of litigation.
Democrats are united in supporting the discharge petition, meaning only 5 or 6 Republican votes will be needed to bring a bill to the floor and pass it. So if anyone here wants to do something more than just talk about this, you can call or write to the following Republicans urging them to sign the petition when it comes up:
John Curtis (UT-3), Ashley Hinson (IA-2), Brian Fitzpatrick (PA-1), David Joyce (OH 14), Victoria Spartz (IN-5), Don Bacon (NE-2), Mike Gallagher (WI-8), Andrew Garbarino (NY-2), Nancy Mace (SC-1), Dan Newhouse (WA-4), and David Valadao (CA-22)
Their contact information can be found here:
https://JerryWeiss.substack.com/p/nows-the-time
Just scroll down past the parts about our network's effort to remove and replace Speaker McCarthy, and you'll find all the info you need, including short bios of each.
.
Thank you for this information. I will write/call tomorrow and will send out info to friends who will do the same. I have no idea if it will work, but it is better to write than hand wring.
Are there two Democrats still holding out on signing the petition?
Wouldn’t that be manchin and Sinema? The DINOs.
Manchin & Sinema are Senators, but no doubt they would be holdouts on anything good for the country. One was my Rep from the redder part of ME, Jared Golden (😡) and the other was from HI
I believe there is a world where Biden could have gotten ahead of the chaos agents. The Democratic Party could finally understand how to control a narrative and start directly communicating with the American people that if a default happens, it's by choice. Calling out that the far right has only been interested in chaos is a truth that the middle already believes. It's been driving elections across the country for the last three years.
Biden should be using the bully pulpit to continually remind the American people that the far right in the house is only interested in the chaos that provides them more opportunities for power. They are not interested in doing their jobs and passing legislation to help Americans. They are performers just like in the WWE, creating a story that their fans are winning. But it's all a work, not actual work.
I agree that messaging can always be stronger. But we’re coming from a place where messaging is siloed, and the reasonable arguments are always more nuanced than the unreasonable ones. Given that messaging isn’t our strong suit, we shouldn’t always wring our hands over the fact that the message is not getting through, especially in an age of Fox News and social media disinformation.
Instead, we in the public need to do all we can to inform and spread the word among reasonable people about what is happening. The leadership in DC can’t do it alone, and they have a media that is failing because it is “both sides-ing” this badly, equating hostage takers with budget negotiators.
I think the simplest and most effective message should be GOP = Chaos. Most Americans just want things to be normal and orderly. Don’t underestimate the importance of that when someone steps into a voting booth.
It just dawned on me - aren’t the salaries, pensions, medical plans, etc. of all the Federal employees (including all Congressional Representatives and Senators) debts of the Federal Government? So wouldn’t their salaries, etc. be unpaid as well as Social Security if the government defaults due to the debt limit? Although this may only have an adverse affect on Congressional retirees as those in office probably are subsidized by their corporate backers. (Being snarky on that last sentence.)
Federal employees would not receive checks, that is true. That includes Congress, presumably. Perhaps it should mean their salaries first, though there is a big question over whether the Treasury has any ability to parse payments this way.
Sadly, not being paid would only affect the staff and the (probably Dem) congresscritters that aren’t being lavished with massive bribes (“campaign contributions or gifts from rich hate-filled “friends”). The GQP scumwads would use it to repeat their victim messaging to drum up contributions from their willfully ignorant sheep.
According to the National Constitution Center, the following people ARE paid during a shutdown. I can’t find definitive answers for a default.
Senators & Representatives (Legislative Branch)
Judges & justices (Judicial Branch)
President (Executive Branch)
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/why-do-politicians-and-judges-get-paid-during-a-government-shutdown
Keep in mind that most (although not all) members of Congress are very wealthy people. MTG is said to be worth between about 1 million and $56 million (depending on the source; the $56 million number is from Forbes). Forbes says that most of her income is from government contracts to her construction company.
She was fined more than here complete Congressional take-home pay for defying the mask mandate, and hasn't exactly died of starvation.
If only....
This is so well thought through and, as always, so clearly presented. Thank you, especially for the explanation of why Biden cannot now just pull the 14th amendment trigger.
I’d just like to offer another oft-stated reason why republicans would be ok with blowing up the economy - it would create yet another opportunity, probably the biggest ever, for the super-rich to vacuum up everything in sight . . . to gain exponentially greater wealth and control and weaken faith in small-d, democratic governance. The travails of “little people” are of no concern.
I don’t think the rich elites want Treasuries to fall in value or the US Dollar to stop being the Reserve Currency, too messy?
Biden seems to understand that there is a short game and a long game. The short game could involve either invoking the 14th Amendment or the parallel process in the House for a discharge petition (you did not mention that).
Biden and those around him seem also to be playing a long game. The Freedom Caucaus could well earn the badge of the "Fiscally Reckless Caucus" and that will really hurt at election time. We will see how masterfully or not each side plays this out.
I agree. But I’m just wondering if the long game is the intention - looking to show how badly the Republicans govern (or not) for the next election. If the 14th Amendment is not invoked, and the economy crashes, they may try to blame it on Biden but I think the Democrats can make a big deal out of how they tried to prevent it and/or the devastating economic consequences that would affect millions of people - probably more than the Covid did. But I can’t believe that the 14th Amendment would not be invoked as a last resort.
Are we obligated to call the far-right kooks the “Freedom Caucus”? Dems should take control of the narrative & stop appeasing these people.
I call them the chaos caucus from time to time.
"Freedom Caucus" is the epitome of duck speak.
I refer to them as the UnFreedom caucus. Or sometimes the House Fascist caucus.
Thanks Jay. It is a subject that’s hard to understand. They ought not gamble with our future and need to compromise.
Independence Day
President Thomas Whitmore: What do you want us to do?
Captured Alien: Die. Die.
Moral It’s hard to negotiate with someone who only wants you dead
Isn't there language in the Constitution about what to do if ne'er-do-wells try to take over the government or try to destroy it? Can those in the MAGA/RightWing/BatShitCrazy phalanx, at some point, just be told to "Get Off My Lawn?" (Putin must be loving this; maybe even helping, btw.)
Thank you for the time and trouble you have expended on this topic.
I concur 100% with everything that you say. Sometime back I came to perceive, rightly or wrongly, that the Republicans are not going to budge because they see this as a political win-win. Inside the beltway the only thing anyone cares about is the politics of an issue. If it hurts anyone, they are only concerned how that might affect them politically. Kevin McCarthy has placed everything he has on the altar of his speakership. If he gives in one iota to the Freedom Caucus he will lose that speakership, and so he will not give in. If Joe Biden caves, Kevin wins. If Joe Biden invokes the 14th amendment, it's a huge power-grab and executive overreach and maybe even an impeachment, and so Kevin wins again. If the economy tanks, it will have occurred on Biden's watch and the Republicans are confident they can spin it so as to lay the blame at his feet. (I am fairly certain that that is why Trump is telling the GOP to hold fast.) If you believe that logic, then Kevin still wins. The only losers are all of the rest of us, and the Republicans have not cared about the rest of us since Ronald Reagan took office.
This is their end game; their now or never moment. This is what Grover Norquist has been fighting for for decades, and American billionaires funding super PACs and campaigns over. They are trying to wrestle our government into the bathtub and drown it.
I have been saying this for months and multiple people told me I was wrong. "The GOP would never do that." Um, yes they would, they are crazy. They have been planning this default for months and they aren't gonna give it up now at the last minute. They are gonna take it all the way.
“Folks, Biden can't call their bluff because Republicans aren't bluffing.”
Nonsense.
Ok, they aren’t bluffing in the sense that they’re very eager and anxious to crash the economy. Doing so, and blaming Biden for what they would’ve done, is the only hope they have of winning in 2024.
But they are very much bluffing in that they’ll be able to pull it off. As president, Biden can have the Treasury Department continue to pay America’s bills. He can make it very clear that that’s exactly what he’s going to do and if Republicans don’t like it, well, then, “Tough.”
Threats to not pass a law raising the debt ceiling or are as hollow as a tantrum-throwing toddler threatening their parent if they don’t get a cookie. The parent (the president) can just continue to do what they’re going to do and the child has absolutely no power to stop them.
What’s your basis for your conclusion?
The President is legally bound by at least two parts of the Constitution and the Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 (which being more recent than the Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917 that created the debt ceiling, supersedes it) to pay America’s bills.
Republicans can’t pass a change to the Constitution on their own nor, with no control of the Senate and barely any of the House, can they pass something to change the 1974 Act.
Biden can follow the laws he swore to uphold and Republicans have no way to force him to do otherwise.
Here's a possibly interesting development.
"Friday's request for judicial intervention stems from a lawsuit—which cites the 14th Amendment—that attorneys for the National Association of Government Employees (NAGE) filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Massachusetts on May 8. While Biden and Yellen are named as defendents, the aim of the case is to have the debt limit law declared unconstitutional.
"This litigation is both an effort to protect our members from illegal furloughs and to correct an unconstitutional statute that frequently creates uncertainty and anxiety for millions of Americans," NAGE national president David Holway said earlier this month. "The debt ceiling has become a political football for certain members of Congress. If Congress will not raise the debt limit as it has nearly 80 times before without condition, it leaves no constitutional choice for the president."
"Congress' failure of will to act is not justification to violate the Constitution," added Holway, just days after his union endorsed Biden for reelection. "But it is the reason this case had to be filed to protect the American public, federal employees, and our Constitution."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/14th-amendment-debt-ceiling-nage?xrs=RebelMouse_fb&ts=1684628958&fbclid=IwAR3JyAsS8wszdEeou_sEW-4-JFmrsagUJIpmF0t6HKNWaOmJbGi_-Hhjjm0