Correction: I had stated George W. Bush was the highest number of recess appointments in recent history in the year 2000. That should have been Bill Clinton. It’s been corrected.
I was just about to reply with a "no it's not" when I realized that the emails that went out with the incorrect text would not be updated by your correction.
It seems to me that the plan is simple, weeds notwithstanding: Adjourn permanently, and that’s it, just like Germany in the 1930s. Why is there even a doubt that this is where they’ll go? The question is, what preparations are being made to prevent it, or is prevention just a pipe dream, and this is what’s going to happen, get ready?
I think it might be stopped but we will have the economy of 1931, complete with Hoovervilles and Kmer Rouge level bloodletting before this is so. Witness how awful things had to get before we got FDR. And that was without 'social media'
It may be and this is my point of asking the question. Are there any articulated steps to deal with this proactively rather than reactively? I’m certainly not in any political inner circle to know, but my view of our collective experience (and history) point toward a less than robust response to these kinds of things. So the question still stands - what’s being done?
What Trump has in mind - and, more importantly, his oligarch backers - will not be amenable to legal or political remedies.
The Tree of Liberty will be restored through the Jefferson Remedy, and a heavy involvement of the Second Amendment.
Interestingly, when SCOTUS handed down the decision on Trump's presidential immunity, they left the question on the legality of insurrections open. As this would be the ultimate barrier when legal and political checks and balances fail.
I second Stein's comment below: is the prospect of Trump adjourning Congress indefinitely via this technicality reaching non-MAGA politicians on both sides of the aisle? Does Biden know? If he did, why would he do that photo-op with Trump and tell him 'welcome back?' Baude and Paulsen in Harvd L. Review just published an excellent article about how the 14th section 3 still lives and Trump is still disqualified until 2/3 of congress overturn that prohibition. Congress on Jan 6th could reject Trump electoral votes. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4952397 Is this info reaching congress? A lot has happened in 7 days (cough - these insane cabinet picks), this seems like the kind of thing Bernie and AOC can spearhead and hell maybe even talk to Joe Rogan about to get on board when it goes down, since he's a Bernie fan.
Jay's analysis here is very thorough and interesting. I'm seeing the machinations as the most polite, lowest-cost way the orange criminal is going about cementing absolute, unchecked power. It's the first rung of a ladder, so to speak. At the end of the day, the technicalities that Jay explains won't matter because the orange criminal will simply roll over the top of them, crush them and anyone who objects. I don't know how many rungs the ladder to tyranny has, but probably not very many, and it isn't going to take the orange criminal and his band of fascist thugs long to climb them. How long until he simply padlocks the Congressional buildings and surrounds them with a couple thousand loyal, heavily armed soldiers commanded by a rogue general? A year? Two years?
It'll never happen here, you say? Couldn't possibly happen here? Right, that's what so many people said eight and ten years ago, unwilling to understand what the orange criminal has conclusively proven, again and again: he is all about stealing everything he can for himself and doing any damn thing he feels like, and giving us all the finger while he does it. Oh, still laughing, are you? Laugh away. Check back in a year. I don't think you'll be laughing then.
The situation is dire and is soon to become worse, much worse. There is no one in "leadership," including SCOTUS, with the balls to resist, and there is no group with the clout to prevent the takeover.
What it will come down to, IMHO, is grass-roots resistance, in every walk of life, every trade and profession, every activity. The "enemies within" list will get longer and longer, and people on it will suffer worse and worse consequences. Breaking the grip of illegitimate power will be very difficult and will take a long time.
But then we'd end up with Vance as president. I see him as even more terrifying given who his controllers have been. And I can imagine him telling said 'controllers' to get lost if he gets the levers of government in his hands.
Exactly. Couchfuck McGee would be even more of a clueless puppet than Cheetolini. While Cheetolini can be easily manipulated by anyone with three brain cells to rub together, he also has the attention-span of a gnat, and surrounds himself with sycophantic fanatics, whose incompetence saved us last time. Not sure we’ll be as fortunate this time around. .
If Congress adjourns permanently, how would government spending be covered? And if we can get along without Congress indefinitely, why have one in the first place? Surely any president confronted with the obstructionist Congresses we've seen lately would just send them home for the duration and rule by fiat.
You seem to be under the impression that Trump and the NatCs care about a functioning society. They do not. They care about enriching themselves, power, and oppression. They will gladly rule over a burning dumpster fire, because they are that stupid and selfish. These are the same people pretending that climate collapse isn't imminent.
This seems exactly like the kind of thing MAGA would love for him to do, so they can just feed him Project 2025 plans for his signature and nobody can do a damned thing.
Bombs haven't been pummeling Our Fine Towns, etc. We've been almost completely detached from anything remotely resembling "inconveniences" to our ways of life. Add to this the enormous War On Truth.... Yep. Gilbert O'Sullivan: "What do we do. What do we do"
Thank you for posting this somewhat alarming analysis.
There are still institutionalists in Congress, even Republican ones. Anyone with clear sight can see that Trump cannot last for any sustained period of time as a vigorous and engaged president. The aftermath of his tenure in office, however long or brief that might be, is something that needs to be foreseen and reckoned with. Does the Republican Senate majority leader want to hand over unchecked power to J. D. Vance? Elon Musk? Elise Stefanick? Or indeed to some other as yet unknown but ambitious successor to Donald Trump? I am betting that the answer to that is "no." I am also betting that Mitch McConnell is briefing his potential successors on exactly this possibility. It will require some genuine tap dancing to get around a power grab of this magnitude, but it certainly can be done.
I have always maintained that the problem with handing political power to someone from the business world, someone who has never spent time performing public service, is that they are accustomed to the nearly feudal power structure that exists in most American businesses. That power structure predisposes them to act willfully and unilaterally, and it also predisposes employees of such businesses towards authoritarian leadership styles. The people that Trump seems inclined to appoint come into government with this mindset. That could prove to be their Achilles heel.
The checks and balances of our system of government are maintained by the members of each branch of government against the other branches, as well as against the opposing party within their own branch. The exercise of power thus depends heavily upon understanding the political process, knowing how to use those processes to your advantage, and knowing how to cut your losses when things don't go as planned. Neither Trump, his inner circle, nor the Heritage Foundation authors of Project 2025 have demonstrated the least concern or understanding for how the machine actually works. This is Dunning-Kruger writ large. They have very big plans, but they do not possess the experience or expertise with which to make those plans a reality. That, at least, is my hope.
Douglas, with particular attention to the concern that Trump can simply adjourn both houses of Congress and rule by fiat, what guardrails or pushback exists to prevent that from happening? Sure Thune isn't MAGA, but he won't have a say when Trump tells them he's adjourning them until such time as he sees fit. Sure SCOTUS will say Trump can't do that, but since when will MAGA or over half the population care what scotus has to say on the matter? Dem governors can refuse to comply with Pres. Trump citing the 14th section 3 that he's an insurrectionist, but when they do that after Jan 20th, he'll have the full might of the US military behind him. Doesn't it make the most sense to *prevent* him from assuming office by Congress invoking the 14th section 3 now (well officially on Jan 6 unless leaders call an emergency session) rather than trying to stop him once he's already president?
Jay, I heard on social media that Elon Musk is gloating over something he did with Starlink (if that’s its name) in the swing states. Is there something to this? This would be very serious if it is true.
It’s just an internet rumor, unsubstantiated by any evidence and contrary to how machines actually work. They are not connected to the internet or to Starlink for precisely this reason.
Sure, but how hard would it be to get someone on the inside to tamper with the machines? We know they've been doing this at every level of the election process, why would they stop at the most crucial?
Cyber security conventions have proven how easy they are to hack and our government has been woefully behind in cyber security measures. We still have local governments and police precincts getting ransomware hacks and paying out to get their systems back, for God's sake.
Every accusation is an admission. They tried to steal it in 2020 with fake electors or did you forget there's a RICO case in Georgia right now over it? They have pushed for voter suppression laws, purged hundreds of thousands from the rolls, many wrongfully, and put their own sycophants into position as election workers. We know this, it's all an objective fact.
So no, trying to ensure a free and fair election is not a baseless conspiracy theory and trying to pretend it is, that's just subversion. Who's side are you on?
An accusation without supporting evidence is... nothing. I'm on the side of focusing on how to win elections in the future, not perseverate on those already lost.
Isn't that because those systems you mentioned are connected to the Internet? Voting machines are not. I suppose you could have "inside" people doing this in the swing states, though to do that, you would have to have many people in all areas following the script in secret to manipulate each count per precinct. Multiply that by all of them, and this becomes a tremendous amount of people working together secretly to accomplish this mission. And I thought there were other people around, and it seemed like it would be challenging. I have never observed the process in a polling location or where they go next, county I guess, and then to the state. All the electronic data from the individual machines must match the total of ballots turned in. I have no problem believing that this motley crew would do anything illegal at any point in time if it suited. We all know what type of people we are dealing with as there is no single stand-up person among the entire group. Perhaps someone with more profound knowledge will figure it out.
It would be effectively impossible to do what’s described. It’s an extraordinary claim and so needs extraordinary evidence. Unless someone can present that evidence, let it go.
It’s much more likely that the result can be explained by a combination of distrust in authority, racism/sexism, misinformation, etc.
How would you get the evidence if you don’t investigate? Impossible, you say? Like a convicted felon and known agent of Russia becoming president impossible?
That is not correct. There was a documentary 2-3 years ago and another few years before that, that showed the machines had the ability to connect to the internet, though counties are said not to do that. The ability is there. The team of hackers found the machines to be corruptible. Paper audits was a way to check for hacking. Do the states routinely conduct paper audits? https://m.imdb.com/title/tt12041084/
It has been my understanding that the voting machines are not connected to the internet. Not sure how Starlink Internet Service could mess with voting machines.
Thank you, Jay. Your message arrived after I tried to read all of Steve’s very detailed discussion. Between you both, I think I have a better grasp on what could happen. And reading Jamie Raskin’s book “Unthinkable” earlier has added to my class in Constitutional Law today.
I appreciate everything you write Jay, I always find it soothing and it always informs me on topics I need more information on. But who are we all kidding? We’ve seen the collusion and combativeness from Mitch McConnell for the last 2 decades. Every single republican will fall in line and give Trump everything he wants. They don’t even hide it anymore.
I think it'll be like the lobsters in a pot that the water gradually gets hotter and hotter. It'll be this issue, then another issue, gradually. He's even said during his 2024 campaign that he'd be a dictator and still got elected. It's scary and jaw dropping how he gets away with outrageous, and very public conduct, like the time he "didn't" incite his followers to swarm the Capital Building on Jan 6th, on national television.
I did some stocking up at Walmart today. I bought replacement brushes for my electric toothbrush. I know those are more expensive than the last time I bought them. A clerk had to unlock the case that holds the electric toothbrushes and replacement brushes. I couldn't stop myself, I said,"imagine how much more they're going to cost once the tariffs go through."
Elon Musk is not an elected official! Somehow we must find a way to deport him back to South Africa.
After seeing the photos of the orange blight at McDonald's and in the orange safety vest, I couldn't help but think about Marie Antoinette. When Marie Antoinette and her court were bored with their everyday, rich and comfortable lives, they went to the countryside. Then they would dress in simple clothes and "play peasant" in little houses. There's no doubt that this is one of many reasons why she was beheaded during The French Revolution. I wonder how long the morbidly rich think they can push 330 million American people around???
And our parents and grandparents fought the Nazis and won. We will survive. We need to organize and be strategic. The next impt election coming up is for the Wisconsin Sup Ct, if I'm not wrong. Get involved. Even writing postcards can help.
You really will and so will we. My gut feeling is republicans will focus their attention on climbing over each other in their frenzied grabbing for power and position in their new conservative world. There's going to be an overdose of competitive conservatism since they always need to please trump. Unfortunately, the relief trump's voters thought they were going to get, well, they'll watch the ultra-wealthy, like Elon Musk and others like him, get the help that they wanted. What I'm wondering is will trump be able to make his desparate voters feel that much better by the midterms 24 months from now? I wouldn't bet on that.
I’m grateful you have and at the same time wondering why others haven’t but in any event perhaps it started here then. I think we’re all at least looking for ways to have a sense of (perhaps misplaced) sense of being able to do something.
I have listened to so many things last night and this morning, so I could be wrong, but I thought I heard Michael Popok talking about it. Whoever mentioned it didn't go into detail and would discuss it later, as the current subject matter was taking the whole time slot.
Thank you for digging in to this and writing so clearly about a most complex subject. We need your insights. I am a paid subscriber for this reason and will remain one.
Ah yes the man who has betrayed his family and his religion for everything they became the victims of. What a repugnant monster. A Jewish antisemitic lickspittle.
Oh god. It gets worse and worse. Everytime I see the word ‘anti semite’ or variations of it, I want to throw up. I’m not saying anything else we fought for wasn’t important but being killed for my religion scares the living shit out of me. ✡️
I see that Stefanik had her lips pressed to her pumpkin's ass sufficiently enough to snare the position of UN Ambassador. First of all, I think that's not only terrifying; but also hilarious. Secondly, mission accomplished!!! One more hack in charge of something they shouldn't ever be.
Stefanik is going to get eaten alive by the rest of the Security Council. She's even going to have a problem with Russian UN Ambassador Vasily Nebenzya. Stefanik, Trump and the rest of the MAGA crazies agree with Nebenzya (and Putin) on Ukraine, but *not* on Israel. On November 1 2023, Nebenzya said that Israel doesn't have a right to self defense in Gaza because it's an occupying power. Any pro-Israel resolution she attempts to put forward wil be DOA. Hopefully, this wedge will cause wider problems between Trump and the Russians.
I think Stefanik (a nothing burger but an expert ass-kisser indeed) appt to UN is more a comment on Trump's disdain for the UN than an upgrade for Stefanik.
What was unthinkable before will be reality soon. The 3 questions you posed are easily answered by what we’ve already witnessed. Congress will collude with the President, appointments will be made, federal courts will enforce them.
I wonder if the republicans in Congress would really be happy giving up all their power? They have their own niches carved out and may not be so willing to give up their little kingdoms.
The only thing that kept the Unhinged One from seizing total control of the US Military last time around, was Top Brass refused to obey unlawful orders, citing their sworn oaths to the Constitution of the United States.
He's fully intent on succeding with his mad scheme this time around.
Jay, his is the first time one of your posts has really made me physically ill. I keep trying to isolate myself from political news and I keep trying NOT to care since we are powerless in the face of this coup. I need my sanity to keep living and can't keep focusing on all this doom prediction, which I am sure is credible. When the Constitution is terminated--which he said he plans to do--there will be no more rule of law to push back with. Best case scenario I can imagine is if the blue states refuse to go along with his plans, perhaps they can seceed. After all there will be no more US government. We may end up being more like Europe.
I made myself a bit ill writing it, TBH. I hope I am overprocessing and seeing demons where there are none. That’s certainly possible. But we should beware any foot in the door for fascism, and this is a handy one.
Expect the unexpected, I say. That’s what worries me - what are they planning that we haven’t thought of? That makes it harder for us to anticipate and attempt to foil.
Four more years? Only if we're lucky and have mounted an effective opposition. Otherwise it's either no elections at all or sham elections like Russia, Hungary, and other dictatorships have.
Apropos of stealing an election, he also told his supporters that they don’t have to vote, because he has enough votes already (this was weeks before the election).
Term limits used to be in the Russian Constitution. As soon as Putin had his people in place he legally changed the Constitution. He can remain in power until 2030something, if I remember correctly. Basically, for his life.
Thanks Jay but we shouldn't speculate. We should expect and be prepared for the worst case scenarios. Congress already has a history of colluding with DonOLD when he wasnt even president. Once he is president you can bet the farm they will do ANYTHING he says. His speeches about never needing to vote again and his "Secret" with Johnson is more than likely exactly what you stated. That is how he becomes "dictator" for a day because that's all he will need. He adjourns congress indefinitely and Johnson is on board 100%. They have been planning this since he left office. They have a 4 year lead on dems and we have no plan because we were wrapped up in the present. Dont count on the Supreme Court to save us. People voted for this shite with their eyes open. They want a dictator/king. Their just too stupid to realize they dont have the tax bracket to survive a dictatorship.
TBH, any "constitutional crisis" that ultimately gets SCOTUS to sort through would ill serve this Republic...I mean, if a Court majority firmly decided that tRump is indeed above the law by simply reformulating Article II powers to include criminal "immunity", how much trouble do you suppose this Court will take to rein in tRump's rupture of separation-of-powers doctrines? Little or none, I reckon, given their track record,
Correction: I had stated George W. Bush was the highest number of recess appointments in recent history in the year 2000. That should have been Bill Clinton. It’s been corrected.
I was just about to reply with a "no it's not" when I realized that the emails that went out with the incorrect text would not be updated by your correction.
It seems to me that the plan is simple, weeds notwithstanding: Adjourn permanently, and that’s it, just like Germany in the 1930s. Why is there even a doubt that this is where they’ll go? The question is, what preparations are being made to prevent it, or is prevention just a pipe dream, and this is what’s going to happen, get ready?
I think it is too defeatist to assume this is our fate with no chance at stopping it.
I think it might be stopped but we will have the economy of 1931, complete with Hoovervilles and Kmer Rouge level bloodletting before this is so. Witness how awful things had to get before we got FDR. And that was without 'social media'
Agree. GOP doesn’t care anymore. Why does anyone think we’ll remain a democracy going forward?
You assume there are Republicans who will defy their prez. Those folks are gone. TFG will do whatever he wants. SCOTUS will let him.
I was coming here to say that.
Sadly, true.
It may be and this is my point of asking the question. Are there any articulated steps to deal with this proactively rather than reactively? I’m certainly not in any political inner circle to know, but my view of our collective experience (and history) point toward a less than robust response to these kinds of things. So the question still stands - what’s being done?
What Trump has in mind - and, more importantly, his oligarch backers - will not be amenable to legal or political remedies.
The Tree of Liberty will be restored through the Jefferson Remedy, and a heavy involvement of the Second Amendment.
Interestingly, when SCOTUS handed down the decision on Trump's presidential immunity, they left the question on the legality of insurrections open. As this would be the ultimate barrier when legal and political checks and balances fail.
Indeed ! The Tree of Liberty must occasionally be watered by the blood of tyrants. Not advocating anything but it is a quote that exists...
I second Stein's comment below: is the prospect of Trump adjourning Congress indefinitely via this technicality reaching non-MAGA politicians on both sides of the aisle? Does Biden know? If he did, why would he do that photo-op with Trump and tell him 'welcome back?' Baude and Paulsen in Harvd L. Review just published an excellent article about how the 14th section 3 still lives and Trump is still disqualified until 2/3 of congress overturn that prohibition. Congress on Jan 6th could reject Trump electoral votes. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4952397 Is this info reaching congress? A lot has happened in 7 days (cough - these insane cabinet picks), this seems like the kind of thing Bernie and AOC can spearhead and hell maybe even talk to Joe Rogan about to get on board when it goes down, since he's a Bernie fan.
Jay's analysis here is very thorough and interesting. I'm seeing the machinations as the most polite, lowest-cost way the orange criminal is going about cementing absolute, unchecked power. It's the first rung of a ladder, so to speak. At the end of the day, the technicalities that Jay explains won't matter because the orange criminal will simply roll over the top of them, crush them and anyone who objects. I don't know how many rungs the ladder to tyranny has, but probably not very many, and it isn't going to take the orange criminal and his band of fascist thugs long to climb them. How long until he simply padlocks the Congressional buildings and surrounds them with a couple thousand loyal, heavily armed soldiers commanded by a rogue general? A year? Two years?
It'll never happen here, you say? Couldn't possibly happen here? Right, that's what so many people said eight and ten years ago, unwilling to understand what the orange criminal has conclusively proven, again and again: he is all about stealing everything he can for himself and doing any damn thing he feels like, and giving us all the finger while he does it. Oh, still laughing, are you? Laugh away. Check back in a year. I don't think you'll be laughing then.
The situation is dire and is soon to become worse, much worse. There is no one in "leadership," including SCOTUS, with the balls to resist, and there is no group with the clout to prevent the takeover.
Agreed in this scenario I give it no more than a year. Things move more quickly these days. Is there any chance to overcome this?
What it will come down to, IMHO, is grass-roots resistance, in every walk of life, every trade and profession, every activity. The "enemies within" list will get longer and longer, and people on it will suffer worse and worse consequences. Breaking the grip of illegitimate power will be very difficult and will take a long time.
Dump choking on a Big Mac would help. None of the would be Hitlers have his cult appeal
But then we'd end up with Vance as president. I see him as even more terrifying given who his controllers have been. And I can imagine him telling said 'controllers' to get lost if he gets the levers of government in his hands.
Exactly. Couchfuck McGee would be even more of a clueless puppet than Cheetolini. While Cheetolini can be easily manipulated by anyone with three brain cells to rub together, he also has the attention-span of a gnat, and surrounds himself with sycophantic fanatics, whose incompetence saved us last time. Not sure we’ll be as fortunate this time around. .
I lol’d at Couchfuck McGee, well done
Nobody on the right including SCOTUS wants to resist because they are exactly getting what they want.
And guidance from Putin and Orban.
and Elon.
Pts- and guidance from Putin and Orban
If Congress adjourns permanently, how would government spending be covered? And if we can get along without Congress indefinitely, why have one in the first place? Surely any president confronted with the obstructionist Congresses we've seen lately would just send them home for the duration and rule by fiat.
You seem to be under the impression that Trump and the NatCs care about a functioning society. They do not. They care about enriching themselves, power, and oppression. They will gladly rule over a burning dumpster fire, because they are that stupid and selfish. These are the same people pretending that climate collapse isn't imminent.
That’s the point. To rule by fiat.
My first thought was Putin dissolving the Federal Assembly(Russian Parliament).
This seems exactly like the kind of thing MAGA would love for him to do, so they can just feed him Project 2025 plans for his signature and nobody can do a damned thing.
Bombs haven't been pummeling Our Fine Towns, etc. We've been almost completely detached from anything remotely resembling "inconveniences" to our ways of life. Add to this the enormous War On Truth.... Yep. Gilbert O'Sullivan: "What do we do. What do we do"
Resistance 2024 is forming.
Do not obey in advance!
Persist for freedom and
democracy!
This
Thank you for posting this somewhat alarming analysis.
There are still institutionalists in Congress, even Republican ones. Anyone with clear sight can see that Trump cannot last for any sustained period of time as a vigorous and engaged president. The aftermath of his tenure in office, however long or brief that might be, is something that needs to be foreseen and reckoned with. Does the Republican Senate majority leader want to hand over unchecked power to J. D. Vance? Elon Musk? Elise Stefanick? Or indeed to some other as yet unknown but ambitious successor to Donald Trump? I am betting that the answer to that is "no." I am also betting that Mitch McConnell is briefing his potential successors on exactly this possibility. It will require some genuine tap dancing to get around a power grab of this magnitude, but it certainly can be done.
I have always maintained that the problem with handing political power to someone from the business world, someone who has never spent time performing public service, is that they are accustomed to the nearly feudal power structure that exists in most American businesses. That power structure predisposes them to act willfully and unilaterally, and it also predisposes employees of such businesses towards authoritarian leadership styles. The people that Trump seems inclined to appoint come into government with this mindset. That could prove to be their Achilles heel.
The checks and balances of our system of government are maintained by the members of each branch of government against the other branches, as well as against the opposing party within their own branch. The exercise of power thus depends heavily upon understanding the political process, knowing how to use those processes to your advantage, and knowing how to cut your losses when things don't go as planned. Neither Trump, his inner circle, nor the Heritage Foundation authors of Project 2025 have demonstrated the least concern or understanding for how the machine actually works. This is Dunning-Kruger writ large. They have very big plans, but they do not possess the experience or expertise with which to make those plans a reality. That, at least, is my hope.
Thank you for another drop of hope.
Douglas, with particular attention to the concern that Trump can simply adjourn both houses of Congress and rule by fiat, what guardrails or pushback exists to prevent that from happening? Sure Thune isn't MAGA, but he won't have a say when Trump tells them he's adjourning them until such time as he sees fit. Sure SCOTUS will say Trump can't do that, but since when will MAGA or over half the population care what scotus has to say on the matter? Dem governors can refuse to comply with Pres. Trump citing the 14th section 3 that he's an insurrectionist, but when they do that after Jan 20th, he'll have the full might of the US military behind him. Doesn't it make the most sense to *prevent* him from assuming office by Congress invoking the 14th section 3 now (well officially on Jan 6 unless leaders call an emergency session) rather than trying to stop him once he's already president?
Jay, I heard on social media that Elon Musk is gloating over something he did with Starlink (if that’s its name) in the swing states. Is there something to this? This would be very serious if it is true.
It’s just an internet rumor, unsubstantiated by any evidence and contrary to how machines actually work. They are not connected to the internet or to Starlink for precisely this reason.
Sure, but how hard would it be to get someone on the inside to tamper with the machines? We know they've been doing this at every level of the election process, why would they stop at the most crucial?
Cyber security conventions have proven how easy they are to hack and our government has been woefully behind in cyber security measures. We still have local governments and police precincts getting ransomware hacks and paying out to get their systems back, for God's sake.
Come on, guys. We need to let the stolen votes narrative go. This thread sounds exactly like election deniers in 2020.
Every accusation is an admission. They tried to steal it in 2020 with fake electors or did you forget there's a RICO case in Georgia right now over it? They have pushed for voter suppression laws, purged hundreds of thousands from the rolls, many wrongfully, and put their own sycophants into position as election workers. We know this, it's all an objective fact.
So no, trying to ensure a free and fair election is not a baseless conspiracy theory and trying to pretend it is, that's just subversion. Who's side are you on?
An accusation without supporting evidence is... nothing. I'm on the side of focusing on how to win elections in the future, not perseverate on those already lost.
Bold of you to assume there will be elections in the future...
How would you get the evidence if you don’t investigate?
Big difference! We know trump is lawless and will stop at nothing to stay out of jail. None of that describes Biden.
Isn't that because those systems you mentioned are connected to the Internet? Voting machines are not. I suppose you could have "inside" people doing this in the swing states, though to do that, you would have to have many people in all areas following the script in secret to manipulate each count per precinct. Multiply that by all of them, and this becomes a tremendous amount of people working together secretly to accomplish this mission. And I thought there were other people around, and it seemed like it would be challenging. I have never observed the process in a polling location or where they go next, county I guess, and then to the state. All the electronic data from the individual machines must match the total of ballots turned in. I have no problem believing that this motley crew would do anything illegal at any point in time if it suited. We all know what type of people we are dealing with as there is no single stand-up person among the entire group. Perhaps someone with more profound knowledge will figure it out.
It would be effectively impossible to do what’s described. It’s an extraordinary claim and so needs extraordinary evidence. Unless someone can present that evidence, let it go.
It’s much more likely that the result can be explained by a combination of distrust in authority, racism/sexism, misinformation, etc.
How would you get the evidence if you don’t investigate? Impossible, you say? Like a convicted felon and known agent of Russia becoming president impossible?
Stop. Work on something productive -- like the next election: the Wisconsin Supreme ct.
I'm an election worker. The machines are not connected to the Internet. They are essentially dumb recorders.
That is not correct. There was a documentary 2-3 years ago and another few years before that, that showed the machines had the ability to connect to the internet, though counties are said not to do that. The ability is there. The team of hackers found the machines to be corruptible. Paper audits was a way to check for hacking. Do the states routinely conduct paper audits? https://m.imdb.com/title/tt12041084/
It has been my understanding that the voting machines are not connected to the internet. Not sure how Starlink Internet Service could mess with voting machines.
IMO don’t believe anything you read on social media. Itsa black hole fulla bullshit.
The very reason I got rid of it.
Thank you, Jay. Your message arrived after I tried to read all of Steve’s very detailed discussion. Between you both, I think I have a better grasp on what could happen. And reading Jamie Raskin’s book “Unthinkable” earlier has added to my class in Constitutional Law today.
I appreciate everything you write Jay, I always find it soothing and it always informs me on topics I need more information on. But who are we all kidding? We’ve seen the collusion and combativeness from Mitch McConnell for the last 2 decades. Every single republican will fall in line and give Trump everything he wants. They don’t even hide it anymore.
I fear you are correct but hope that some will not go so far as to greenlight a dictatorship. We’ll have to see.
I think it'll be like the lobsters in a pot that the water gradually gets hotter and hotter. It'll be this issue, then another issue, gradually. He's even said during his 2024 campaign that he'd be a dictator and still got elected. It's scary and jaw dropping how he gets away with outrageous, and very public conduct, like the time he "didn't" incite his followers to swarm the Capital Building on Jan 6th, on national television.
Yes, there’s no reason to discuss. We know what they’ve done. They will do everything the same again. Just now, they have the Supreme Court.
I fear you are right. But I have hope you are wrong. Two things that give me hope:
William Barr- by all accounts, a Trump loyalist- refused to claim election fraud following the 2020 election results.
Mike Pence- defied Trump when Trump asked that he send the votes back to the states.
Conclusion: bad people are capable of doing the right thing.
Can the guardrails of our democracy weather another Trump storm? I don't know, but I can hope.
Isn't that the same guy who RAMMED through Republican Supreme Court judges before we fired him? I'll never survive the next four years.
We will survive it. I think of the Ukrainians, who continue to endure so much. My parents survived 10 years of war in China. Humans are resilient.
I did some stocking up at Walmart today. I bought replacement brushes for my electric toothbrush. I know those are more expensive than the last time I bought them. A clerk had to unlock the case that holds the electric toothbrushes and replacement brushes. I couldn't stop myself, I said,"imagine how much more they're going to cost once the tariffs go through."
Elon Musk is not an elected official! Somehow we must find a way to deport him back to South Africa.
After seeing the photos of the orange blight at McDonald's and in the orange safety vest, I couldn't help but think about Marie Antoinette. When Marie Antoinette and her court were bored with their everyday, rich and comfortable lives, they went to the countryside. Then they would dress in simple clothes and "play peasant" in little houses. There's no doubt that this is one of many reasons why she was beheaded during The French Revolution. I wonder how long the morbidly rich think they can push 330 million American people around???
And our parents and grandparents fought the Nazis and won. We will survive. We need to organize and be strategic. The next impt election coming up is for the Wisconsin Sup Ct, if I'm not wrong. Get involved. Even writing postcards can help.
You really will and so will we. My gut feeling is republicans will focus their attention on climbing over each other in their frenzied grabbing for power and position in their new conservative world. There's going to be an overdose of competitive conservatism since they always need to please trump. Unfortunately, the relief trump's voters thought they were going to get, well, they'll watch the ultra-wealthy, like Elon Musk and others like him, get the help that they wanted. What I'm wondering is will trump be able to make his desparate voters feel that much better by the midterms 24 months from now? I wouldn't bet on that.
IF there are midterm elections...
It just gets worse and worse.
Gee, a game plan for a full blown revolution. Imagine. What will it take to wake people up to this incendiary mess?
Indeed why is this not exploding?
Well, for starters, so far as I know, I am the only one who is discussing this.
Because you are smarter than most people, Jay. Keep writing, keep digging. We need these ideas for The Resistance.
I’m grateful you have and at the same time wondering why others haven’t but in any event perhaps it started here then. I think we’re all at least looking for ways to have a sense of (perhaps misplaced) sense of being able to do something.
Maybe Jon Stewart would be good one to bring into the conversation
After watching HCR on Jon Stewart's podcast I was thinking Jay would be a great follow up.
I have listened to so many things last night and this morning, so I could be wrong, but I thought I heard Michael Popok talking about it. Whoever mentioned it didn't go into detail and would discuss it later, as the current subject matter was taking the whole time slot.
It's front and center in the Guardian.
Thank you for digging in to this and writing so clearly about a most complex subject. We need your insights. I am a paid subscriber for this reason and will remain one.
It will. It's just not today's news yet. Most sources of information are about the easy things.
And a bloody revolution at that. Just heard that Stephen Miller has been tapped as White House Deputy Chief of Staff.
Ah yes the man who has betrayed his family and his religion for everything they became the victims of. What a repugnant monster. A Jewish antisemitic lickspittle.
Oh god. It gets worse and worse. Everytime I see the word ‘anti semite’ or variations of it, I want to throw up. I’m not saying anything else we fought for wasn’t important but being killed for my religion scares the living shit out of me. ✡️
When they start feeling the pain.
When they start feeling the pain, they’ll blame everything on: Biden, Harris, immigrants, Blacks Jews LGBTQI Transgenders….
I see that Stefanik had her lips pressed to her pumpkin's ass sufficiently enough to snare the position of UN Ambassador. First of all, I think that's not only terrifying; but also hilarious. Secondly, mission accomplished!!! One more hack in charge of something they shouldn't ever be.
Stefanik is going to get eaten alive by the rest of the Security Council. She's even going to have a problem with Russian UN Ambassador Vasily Nebenzya. Stefanik, Trump and the rest of the MAGA crazies agree with Nebenzya (and Putin) on Ukraine, but *not* on Israel. On November 1 2023, Nebenzya said that Israel doesn't have a right to self defense in Gaza because it's an occupying power. Any pro-Israel resolution she attempts to put forward wil be DOA. Hopefully, this wedge will cause wider problems between Trump and the Russians.
That's an interesting point.
I think Stefanik (a nothing burger but an expert ass-kisser indeed) appt to UN is more a comment on Trump's disdain for the UN than an upgrade for Stefanik.
What was unthinkable before will be reality soon. The 3 questions you posed are easily answered by what we’ve already witnessed. Congress will collude with the President, appointments will be made, federal courts will enforce them.
I could live with appointments. I can’t quite fathom an indefinite suspension of Congress. I hope they don’t go that far.
I think there’s no end to which they won’t go. If there’s no accountability for a coup, there’s no accountability for anything.
Too many collusionists from J6 are in congress, they're part and parcel with maga scheming
I wonder if the republicans in Congress would really be happy giving up all their power? They have their own niches carved out and may not be so willing to give up their little kingdoms.
Can we live with appointments though? You know they’re going to be beyond extreme.
Look at what happened with SCOTUS.
Jay, do you see any chance that the military will intervene in anything?
The only thing that kept the Unhinged One from seizing total control of the US Military last time around, was Top Brass refused to obey unlawful orders, citing their sworn oaths to the Constitution of the United States.
He's fully intent on succeding with his mad scheme this time around.
Jay, his is the first time one of your posts has really made me physically ill. I keep trying to isolate myself from political news and I keep trying NOT to care since we are powerless in the face of this coup. I need my sanity to keep living and can't keep focusing on all this doom prediction, which I am sure is credible. When the Constitution is terminated--which he said he plans to do--there will be no more rule of law to push back with. Best case scenario I can imagine is if the blue states refuse to go along with his plans, perhaps they can seceed. After all there will be no more US government. We may end up being more like Europe.
I made myself a bit ill writing it, TBH. I hope I am overprocessing and seeing demons where there are none. That’s certainly possible. But we should beware any foot in the door for fascism, and this is a handy one.
Expect the unexpected, I say. That’s what worries me - what are they planning that we haven’t thought of? That makes it harder for us to anticipate and attempt to foil.
Europe isn’t going to be “Europe” much longer, either.
Let the games commence. OMG four more years of this.
Four more years? Only if we're lucky and have mounted an effective opposition. Otherwise it's either no elections at all or sham elections like Russia, Hungary, and other dictatorships have.
Remember at one of his rallies he said if he was elected we would never have to vote again…..this is getting very scary very fast! 😢
Apropos of stealing an election, he also told his supporters that they don’t have to vote, because he has enough votes already (this was weeks before the election).
say more than four years do you really think Trump will let us have another Presidental Election?
In form only, just as in Russia, with carefully curated "opposition" and closely managed procedures.
“Let us?” How can he not? Isn’t it in the Constitution that the people will determine the president?
Term limits used to be in the Russian Constitution. As soon as Putin had his people in place he legally changed the Constitution. He can remain in power until 2030something, if I remember correctly. Basically, for his life.
yes it is but... Trump can have his good ole boys change it.
Constitution?!!! It’s only a piece of toilet paper to them.
He did and will ignore it.
I truly appreciate your optimism - only four more?
Frightening. Truly staggering.
If we're lucky!
Two years. Come on, there will be midterms.
Thanks Jay but we shouldn't speculate. We should expect and be prepared for the worst case scenarios. Congress already has a history of colluding with DonOLD when he wasnt even president. Once he is president you can bet the farm they will do ANYTHING he says. His speeches about never needing to vote again and his "Secret" with Johnson is more than likely exactly what you stated. That is how he becomes "dictator" for a day because that's all he will need. He adjourns congress indefinitely and Johnson is on board 100%. They have been planning this since he left office. They have a 4 year lead on dems and we have no plan because we were wrapped up in the present. Dont count on the Supreme Court to save us. People voted for this shite with their eyes open. They want a dictator/king. Their just too stupid to realize they dont have the tax bracket to survive a dictatorship.
TBH, any "constitutional crisis" that ultimately gets SCOTUS to sort through would ill serve this Republic...I mean, if a Court majority firmly decided that tRump is indeed above the law by simply reformulating Article II powers to include criminal "immunity", how much trouble do you suppose this Court will take to rein in tRump's rupture of separation-of-powers doctrines? Little or none, I reckon, given their track record,
I am concerned that they will view this as a non-justiciable political matter between the other branches.
Hmm, demoting a potential separation-of-powers adjudication to a non-justiciable "political thicket" question is a big ask, even for this Court.
The six stooges actually doing something right? Their handlers would never allow.