Two stories leapt out of the news this week on the man once known as “America’s Mayor,” and now better known for his bonkers presser at Four Seasons Total Landscaping.
The default that happened to Giuliani was very similar to the one declared against Alex Jones in several of the civil cases against him. Yes: that is a rare sanction (I saw it happen once in my practice of almost 30 years. Not to my client!). It is becoming more common because of the attitude of so many in the MAGA circle that the laws don't apply to them, including court orders.
yes. The weird thing is that for Jones, plaintiffs had dropped their claim of slander--the kids, of course, were dead. They were suing for outrage--intentional infliction of emotional distress. That is REALLY hard to prove. All Alex had to do was cooperate and he had a pretty fair chance of skating. Nope: the words "cut off your nose" and 'spite your face" come to mind.
Like you Susan I knew about this failure to comply with discovery sanction but in all my years as a trial attorney, the mere whiff of that threat by the judge always brought the party into compliance. And their counsel as well; no reasonable attorney wanted that damage to their reputation as well. I guess that was back in the day when one’s reputation in the trial bar counted for something.
well, here it was Alex himself refusing and Giuliani being a fool for a client. In my case, the attorney who generated the default later went to prison for bank fraud, so you can guess his level of competence. I was actually in house counsel for a surety. At one meeting (this was in our LA attorney's office) the guy refused to hand over the sign in sheet, saying he was keeping it "for my records." Our LA attorney had to call security to get the damn piece of paper back- after he had tried to grab it, and been dodged. That was one of the more interesting meetings of my career.
“Judge Howell also had little patience for Giuliani trying to play a victim of the state. “Donning a cloak of victimization may play well on a public stage to certain audiences, but in a court of law this performance has served only to subvert the normal process of discovery in a straightforward defamation case,” the judge wrote.”
Every dime he has should go to these women, he should be forced to live on the streets of NYC and have the cops "stop and frisk" him! I can no longer laugh at anything these people do (okay, maybe a few things), because they are truly trying to destroy this country.
It's becoming obvious that "Mr Mayor's" usefulness to tRump and as part of a possible criminal defense line has markedly diminished, and he's more or less been cut loose. No MAGA PAC coin to pay his legal fees, some c-list "fundraiser" later this month to which tRump may not even show up, just general "who's he, heard the name but never met him" treatment.
Yet again, yet another example of "Everything tRump touches dies", claiming his latest victim.
Unfortunately for tRump, too many of the "good guy" lawyers are already on the public record detailing THEIR advice to tRump, advice that ran contrary to his subsequent acts of lawlessness. The "advice of counsel" defense is DOA, I'm afraid.
Do you think Rudy has some SUPER BAD major dirt on Trump in his documents that he refused (played the system that he knows so well) to hand over to discovery by Freeman/Moss attorneys? Maybe why Trump is allegedly hosting $100K a plate fundraiser for Rudy on Sept. 6 in FL?
That's the speculation, and "Mr Mayor" surely must have known - if his mind isn't too muddled by alcohol abuse - that withholding of discovery material would sink his case, so he took the rap.
There are those who fall from grace and who don't have far to fall. It's often a surprise trip for them because they have little understanding or appreciation for karma.
While true, Rudy thought he was high atop a pedestal with that America's Mayor malarky. He was never America's Mayor, except to the press who wanted to make their own hero. They would have been better to have exalted one of the cadaver dogs, those were heroes.
What's truly heartbreaking is that the legal findings will fall on the deaf ears of the MAGA cult, who will continue and likely ramp up their "fatwa" against Ross and Freeman because Dear Leader and his inner circle said that he's being "unfairly accused". The cowards attacking these two brave women have already dismissed anything that conflicts with their compromised world view, which is rather frightening.
I think I want to do a piece in the Big Picture about The MAGA Cult and how people can break from it. It’s certainly not through our persuasive reasoning…
They have to be personally impacted, disappointed, betrayed, and then also have a steward, a guide upon whom they can rely to lead then from the darkness...
Unfortunately true. The "weaponization of the judicial system" comment immediately after the judge's decision by Rudy's attorney (I think, maybe it was someone else but it was said) was expected. I swear "unfairly accused" and "weaponization of the judicial system" are their 2 favorite phrases.
"Weaponization of the judicial system" (by Trump and his minions, e.g , Gaetz, Comer, Jordan, et al.), is one of the clearest examples of projection emanating from those jackasses. This is exactly what they do whenever they go after honest (or nearly honest - ahem) Dems and others who oppose them.
The memory of Giuliani on television September 11th, when he became “America’s Mayor” is still in my head. To have watched him circle and cycle into what he is now has been repellent and cringeworthy. As people get older I think their primary beliefs and traits get distilled so it’s much more obvious to others as they manifest just what they are. Beyond distilled I too think Giuliani is pickled. Thanks for this revelation. Clear, concise communication with a little levity for seasoning is definitely your forte, and I’m here for it.
I think he was already like this. I recently moved to the Bronx and have learned about the racist policies he proposed during his mayoral reign. For example, while other mayors also suggested to move the new Yankee Stadium out of the Bronx, Giuliani had a few additional suggestions: leave it in the Bronx, but build a huge parking garage on the Macombs Dam Park - where the Yankee Stadium used to stand and is now being enjoyed by Bronx residents who rose up agains that proposal. He then proposed to build a bridge across the Borough so that NO Yankee fan would ever have to set foot in the Bronx - other than being in the Stadium for the games. As for Sept. 11, I was working at Bowling Green - a few blocks away from WTC - when the planes hit, and let's be honest, I think any NYC mayor during that time would have stepped up to the plate. In a way, wasn't he lucky that this tragic event put him front and center, garnering him loads of publicity?
He was pretty heinous as a mayor. He started off ok(ish) because he had a problem he thought he could solve and the prevailing winds pushed toward what he was trying to accomplish (but I don't know that his efforts were what did it.) But once he was past that point, he went into loony lands. Railing about police shooting victims not being an altar boy (he actually was one) and the super crazy Rudy becomes an art critic on the Saatchi collection young artists show at the Brooklyn museum. And those are just the ones I remember.
He's always been a jerk at best. Plus a publicity hound.
If nothing else Mr. Guiliani's downwardly mobile trajectory is the story of addiction: addiction to being at the center of things which seems to motivate not a few of Trump's hangers on. Power or proximity to it must be the high of all highs. Better than heroin, better than fentanyl, it makes people humiliate themselves constantly to maintain access to the buzz.
It's truly sad to see where is his now. He allowed tRump to destroy him... it was a choice, he knew the very real consequences of his actions. He could have walked when things started getting sketchy. And if he stayed on because he thought tRump would bail him out or not throw him under the bus then he wasn't paying much attention to what tRump has done to literally everyone around him. It's sad but I don't have much empathy for anyone in the MAGGOT circle.
No secret Trumplekins surrounds himself with yes people, and does not concern himself with minutia such as competence and credibility; he only needs someone, anyone, anyone at all to vocalize, mime, or interpretative dance the answer he seeks for him to clutch it to this generous bosom whilst adulating the sound advice he has received. This seedy lot don many cloaks, changed at lightspeed in a gilded bathroom.
I did go to TikTok and I did watch the debacle again. I laughed just as hard this time around. As someone that has found so much lately to laugh about I wonder what will be his legacy? It’s very sad that someone who was so respected at one time could take up with Mr. Trump and become such a laughing stock. From the hair dye drippings to the Landscape business press conference I hope he will see that forming a connection to Trump has been his demise. Very sad.
I'm guessing he's going to lose most of his money in the defamation case. Possibly go to jail in Georgia if not elsewhere on the insurrection type stuff. And will end up living with his son in a spare bedroom or on the couch while he drinks away what is left of his life. I don't think his son has such extra money to rent his dad his own place. Although they may stick him in assisted living if they can find one they can afford.
Today AND tomorrow...and any day he can after that. Trump will resurrect Giuliani and throw him (and anybody else he can lay hands on) back under the bus as many times as he thinks necessary...and then maybe a time or two more for good measure, if Trumpy's feeling aggrieved.
Giuliani is not too broke to defend himself. He has the money - he's still flying around on private jets. He just isn't going to throw good money after bad. He KNOWS he has no evidence of real fraud (why else has he not actually SET IT FORTH in 3 years?). He KNOWS he defamed those women and he was going to lose the lawsuit. Why throw $200,000 to the lawyers to just delay the inevitable?
The private plane thing - that could be a loaner from a friend. He doesn't own one. Everyone in certain circles is always cadging rides from people who do have planes. So I'm guessing it was a loaner ride from a past supporter.
I would like to ask, for all you legal types, what would be the standard of proof needed to say that the "orange walrus" ( thank you carl hiaison) knew he was a drunk? I whole heartedly believe it, but curious about the legalities.
Trump is raising the defense, so he will have to prove by a preponderance of the evidence (50+1) that it applies. So he must show he acted in good faith. Prosecutors can rebut that claim using this evidence that Trump knew Rudy was a drunk and should never have taken his advice. So it’s on Trump to prove it, I’d say.
Curious, how can they -prove- tfg knew? He openly spoke about Sidney Powell being crazy; that's on record. Other attnys in the room knew about Rudy; they testified to it. But how to -prove- that Tfg himself knew? I think he did, just curious if there is evidence that he actually knew.
The default that happened to Giuliani was very similar to the one declared against Alex Jones in several of the civil cases against him. Yes: that is a rare sanction (I saw it happen once in my practice of almost 30 years. Not to my client!). It is becoming more common because of the attitude of so many in the MAGA circle that the laws don't apply to them, including court orders.
Ah, thanks for the reminder. Alex Jones and Rudy are seeming more and more similar these days, aren’t they?
yes. The weird thing is that for Jones, plaintiffs had dropped their claim of slander--the kids, of course, were dead. They were suing for outrage--intentional infliction of emotional distress. That is REALLY hard to prove. All Alex had to do was cooperate and he had a pretty fair chance of skating. Nope: the words "cut off your nose" and 'spite your face" come to mind.
Like you Susan I knew about this failure to comply with discovery sanction but in all my years as a trial attorney, the mere whiff of that threat by the judge always brought the party into compliance. And their counsel as well; no reasonable attorney wanted that damage to their reputation as well. I guess that was back in the day when one’s reputation in the trial bar counted for something.
well, here it was Alex himself refusing and Giuliani being a fool for a client. In my case, the attorney who generated the default later went to prison for bank fraud, so you can guess his level of competence. I was actually in house counsel for a surety. At one meeting (this was in our LA attorney's office) the guy refused to hand over the sign in sheet, saying he was keeping it "for my records." Our LA attorney had to call security to get the damn piece of paper back- after he had tried to grab it, and been dodged. That was one of the more interesting meetings of my career.
Good lord 🤦♀️
Just waiting on Rudy to file for bankruptcy.
He still has his 6 million dollar apartment...
I started saying that Rudy caught an Alex Jones judgement. I immediately thought of the crank behavior Jones engaged in.
“Judge Howell also had little patience for Giuliani trying to play a victim of the state. “Donning a cloak of victimization may play well on a public stage to certain audiences, but in a court of law this performance has served only to subvert the normal process of discovery in a straightforward defamation case,” the judge wrote.”
SING IT LOUD FOR THE MAGAT CROWD.
Every dime he has should go to these women, he should be forced to live on the streets of NYC and have the cops "stop and frisk" him! I can no longer laugh at anything these people do (okay, maybe a few things), because they are truly trying to destroy this country.
You must be from NYC--that’s exactly what Giuliani directed police to do when he was mayor.
It's becoming obvious that "Mr Mayor's" usefulness to tRump and as part of a possible criminal defense line has markedly diminished, and he's more or less been cut loose. No MAGA PAC coin to pay his legal fees, some c-list "fundraiser" later this month to which tRump may not even show up, just general "who's he, heard the name but never met him" treatment.
Yet again, yet another example of "Everything tRump touches dies", claiming his latest victim.
If Trump moves forward with his advice of counsel defense, he is going to throw his lawyers under the bus. It’s a dicey move, but it’s coming.
Unfortunately for tRump, too many of the "good guy" lawyers are already on the public record detailing THEIR advice to tRump, advice that ran contrary to his subsequent acts of lawlessness. The "advice of counsel" defense is DOA, I'm afraid.
He throws everyone under the bus, it should not be a surprise to any of them
I never thought the leopards would eat my face said the voter for the Leopards Eat Your Face party.
Donald's burned through so many attorneys, why not throw the rest under the bus? Something different from the "refusal to pay" game.
Donnie is CEMENTED to the hill he's chosen to d*e on.
They deserve it! Just as Mark Meadows deserves what’s coming . . . And all the rest of the crooks that rally and support tRump.
Do you think Rudy has some SUPER BAD major dirt on Trump in his documents that he refused (played the system that he knows so well) to hand over to discovery by Freeman/Moss attorneys? Maybe why Trump is allegedly hosting $100K a plate fundraiser for Rudy on Sept. 6 in FL?
That's the speculation, and "Mr Mayor" surely must have known - if his mind isn't too muddled by alcohol abuse - that withholding of discovery material would sink his case, so he took the rap.
He has alluded to that in the past. But so far it hasn't helped him.
Are those plates at the fundraiser all spoken for yet? That's a lot of change for a drunk uncle.
Excellent summary, Lance.
There are those who fall from grace and who don't have far to fall. It's often a surprise trip for them because they have little understanding or appreciation for karma.
And those wholly bereft of grace are on the ground floor already, so rather than fall they simply slump down and roll over in a drunken haze.
While true, Rudy thought he was high atop a pedestal with that America's Mayor malarky. He was never America's Mayor, except to the press who wanted to make their own hero. They would have been better to have exalted one of the cadaver dogs, those were heroes.
What's truly heartbreaking is that the legal findings will fall on the deaf ears of the MAGA cult, who will continue and likely ramp up their "fatwa" against Ross and Freeman because Dear Leader and his inner circle said that he's being "unfairly accused". The cowards attacking these two brave women have already dismissed anything that conflicts with their compromised world view, which is rather frightening.
I think I want to do a piece in the Big Picture about The MAGA Cult and how people can break from it. It’s certainly not through our persuasive reasoning…
They first have to want to break from it. But I do think that would be a very interesting read.
They have to be personally impacted, disappointed, betrayed, and then also have a steward, a guide upon whom they can rely to lead then from the darkness...
Yes please Jay!
Unfortunately true. The "weaponization of the judicial system" comment immediately after the judge's decision by Rudy's attorney (I think, maybe it was someone else but it was said) was expected. I swear "unfairly accused" and "weaponization of the judicial system" are their 2 favorite phrases.
"Weaponization of the judicial system" (by Trump and his minions, e.g , Gaetz, Comer, Jordan, et al.), is one of the clearest examples of projection emanating from those jackasses. This is exactly what they do whenever they go after honest (or nearly honest - ahem) Dems and others who oppose them.
Don't forget Hunter's Laptop®️ and Biden Crime Family™️
Cowards is precisely the correct word.
You can't stop the maga from maggots. It's who they are at this point. You just got to go through or over them.
The memory of Giuliani on television September 11th, when he became “America’s Mayor” is still in my head. To have watched him circle and cycle into what he is now has been repellent and cringeworthy. As people get older I think their primary beliefs and traits get distilled so it’s much more obvious to others as they manifest just what they are. Beyond distilled I too think Giuliani is pickled. Thanks for this revelation. Clear, concise communication with a little levity for seasoning is definitely your forte, and I’m here for it.
I often wonder if he was like this and we just didn’t see it, or if the particularly combination of proximity to such wealth and power destroyed him.
I think he was already like this. I recently moved to the Bronx and have learned about the racist policies he proposed during his mayoral reign. For example, while other mayors also suggested to move the new Yankee Stadium out of the Bronx, Giuliani had a few additional suggestions: leave it in the Bronx, but build a huge parking garage on the Macombs Dam Park - where the Yankee Stadium used to stand and is now being enjoyed by Bronx residents who rose up agains that proposal. He then proposed to build a bridge across the Borough so that NO Yankee fan would ever have to set foot in the Bronx - other than being in the Stadium for the games. As for Sept. 11, I was working at Bowling Green - a few blocks away from WTC - when the planes hit, and let's be honest, I think any NYC mayor during that time would have stepped up to the plate. In a way, wasn't he lucky that this tragic event put him front and center, garnering him loads of publicity?
I agree. It was only timing that propelled him into "America's mayor" - as you said, any NYC mayor would have stepped up to the plate.
And it was mostly just outside NYC. My NYC friends told me that locally they had already known for years what a bad apple he was.
I'm waiting to see why he let tfg skate in the 90s when guiliani was running SDNY
Over the years have heard various rumors that was due to - even then - Russian real estate interest and influence vis-a-vis TFG...
definitely makes sense, we know the russians were courting him as soon as the early 80s...maybe earlier
trump's apartments were great for money laundering. And Rudy was one of his best buddies...
Can you provide more details on that? While it sounds plausible, I prefer to go with well-founded information rather than just vague hearsay.
He was pretty heinous as a mayor. He started off ok(ish) because he had a problem he thought he could solve and the prevailing winds pushed toward what he was trying to accomplish (but I don't know that his efforts were what did it.) But once he was past that point, he went into loony lands. Railing about police shooting victims not being an altar boy (he actually was one) and the super crazy Rudy becomes an art critic on the Saatchi collection young artists show at the Brooklyn museum. And those are just the ones I remember.
He's always been a jerk at best. Plus a publicity hound.
If nothing else Mr. Guiliani's downwardly mobile trajectory is the story of addiction: addiction to being at the center of things which seems to motivate not a few of Trump's hangers on. Power or proximity to it must be the high of all highs. Better than heroin, better than fentanyl, it makes people humiliate themselves constantly to maintain access to the buzz.
Astute observation.
Reminds me of the professor in The Blue Angel. No degradation too vile, no humiliation too painful. Fame is a harsh mistress when she's departing.
It's truly sad to see where is his now. He allowed tRump to destroy him... it was a choice, he knew the very real consequences of his actions. He could have walked when things started getting sketchy. And if he stayed on because he thought tRump would bail him out or not throw him under the bus then he wasn't paying much attention to what tRump has done to literally everyone around him. It's sad but I don't have much empathy for anyone in the MAGGOT circle.
Eliciting the Jack Daniels defense against Giuliani shows Trump don't know Jack.
Good one
😂😂😂
No secret Trumplekins surrounds himself with yes people, and does not concern himself with minutia such as competence and credibility; he only needs someone, anyone, anyone at all to vocalize, mime, or interpretative dance the answer he seeks for him to clutch it to this generous bosom whilst adulating the sound advice he has received. This seedy lot don many cloaks, changed at lightspeed in a gilded bathroom.
I did go to TikTok and I did watch the debacle again. I laughed just as hard this time around. As someone that has found so much lately to laugh about I wonder what will be his legacy? It’s very sad that someone who was so respected at one time could take up with Mr. Trump and become such a laughing stock. From the hair dye drippings to the Landscape business press conference I hope he will see that forming a connection to Trump has been his demise. Very sad.
I’m still laughing!
I'm guessing he's going to lose most of his money in the defamation case. Possibly go to jail in Georgia if not elsewhere on the insurrection type stuff. And will end up living with his son in a spare bedroom or on the couch while he drinks away what is left of his life. I don't think his son has such extra money to rent his dad his own place. Although they may stick him in assisted living if they can find one they can afford.
So, how soon do we think Trump will throw him under the bus by saying "I had NO IDEA he was drunk and giving me BAD ADVICE!" Today or tomorrow?
Only if Trump had remained upwind so he couldn't smell the fumes every time Giuliani spoke. I vote for Today.
Today AND tomorrow...and any day he can after that. Trump will resurrect Giuliani and throw him (and anybody else he can lay hands on) back under the bus as many times as he thinks necessary...and then maybe a time or two more for good measure, if Trumpy's feeling aggrieved.
Wonder if the scene from Borat 2 makes it into court....
Giuliani is not too broke to defend himself. He has the money - he's still flying around on private jets. He just isn't going to throw good money after bad. He KNOWS he has no evidence of real fraud (why else has he not actually SET IT FORTH in 3 years?). He KNOWS he defamed those women and he was going to lose the lawsuit. Why throw $200,000 to the lawyers to just delay the inevitable?
There's also the little matter of continuing to pay his ex-wife.
The private plane thing - that could be a loaner from a friend. He doesn't own one. Everyone in certain circles is always cadging rides from people who do have planes. So I'm guessing it was a loaner ride from a past supporter.
I would like to ask, for all you legal types, what would be the standard of proof needed to say that the "orange walrus" ( thank you carl hiaison) knew he was a drunk? I whole heartedly believe it, but curious about the legalities.
Trump is raising the defense, so he will have to prove by a preponderance of the evidence (50+1) that it applies. So he must show he acted in good faith. Prosecutors can rebut that claim using this evidence that Trump knew Rudy was a drunk and should never have taken his advice. So it’s on Trump to prove it, I’d say.
Fingers crossed 🤞
Curious, how can they -prove- tfg knew? He openly spoke about Sidney Powell being crazy; that's on record. Other attnys in the room knew about Rudy; they testified to it. But how to -prove- that Tfg himself knew? I think he did, just curious if there is evidence that he actually knew.